# Damn! bombing in Madrid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 11, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725 "2004-03-11T16:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/41 "2004-03-12T09:29:58Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Regardless, [it seems that they have claimed responsibility.](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=GQKAXSJXJIK3ICRBAEOCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=4551138) From what I’ve read the “brigades” in question have claimed responsibility for a lot of things, including Turkey bombings, and the UN headquarter attack. They also claimed they were responsible for the August blackouts. Remember the obscure Palestinian group that claimed responsibility for 9/11? Although, this tragedy _does_ reek of AQ, I don’t think that at this stage confessions like this mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/42 "2004-03-12T10:31:03Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > Frankly, most terrorists are people with homicidal urges who justify their love of killing by cloaking it in some political cause. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/43 "2004-03-12T13:52:24Z")
Has anybody heard from RedFury? I seem to recall he lived in Spain, although I’m not sure he was from Madrid. RedFury, I hope you’re OK. I hope you drop in on this thread to let us know you’re all right. My heart aches for Spain - an incredibly beautiful country with great people and a proud culture. I guess we are all Spaniards now. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/44 "2004-03-12T14:29:23Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Of course, if it _is_ the work of _al Qaeda,_ then the bombing is also solid evidence that Bush’s “war on terror” has not been successful. > > Though I’m sure there will be no limit to the number of Bush apologists who will brand any such analysis as exploiting the tragedy, even as they prepare yet another “Remember 9/11 – vote Bush” TV commercial… excuse me, but BULL SHIT! This is not solid evidence that the war on terror has not been successful. However, it is solid evidence that the war on terror is still ongoing and the fight must go on. What’s the alternative? Ignore them while they continue to slaughter innocent people and hope they go away? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/45 "2004-03-12T14:47:14Z")
> [@](#): > > So after invading two countries and sent thousands to a premature death, but still terrorsits are at large, how can you escalate that into a definitive solution? Nuke the ME to kingdom come? (“Destroy the beehive”) intern all Muslims in prison camps? (“Drain the swamps”) Given that huge numbers of them have been kileld and locked away, and the jury is still out on who did this attack, I’d say it’s premature, at least, to say that terrorists are still at large. Of course, there are still terrorists at large, but we don’t know if this is Al Quaeda, the ETA, an splinter faction not yet targeted of one of the above, or a third group entirely. It’s going to take a long time to kill off Islamofascist terror in all it’s forms. AL Quaeda is not the only threat and it’s not the only one we’ve been acting against. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/46 "2004-03-12T15:04:31Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > It’s going to take a long time to kill off Islamofascist terror in all it’s forms. AL Quaeda is not the only threat and it’s not the only one we’ve been acting against. It will also require much more on our part then blowing them off the face of the earth. We’ll need to address some of the underlying issues of why these people are pissed at us in the first place. And don’t give me the “they hate freedom” crap. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/47 "2004-03-12T15:19:35Z")
There are some other possibilites. AQ may have helped some ETA extremists. Recruited them, and then planned the attack and let ETA do the job. As far as this reflects the War on Terror and Bush goes, well, we have not won the war that is clear. I hope the US fully supports Spain in investigating this crime and finding those responsible. I hope that is the action that President Bush takes and I hope President Kerry will continue that support in '05. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/48 "2004-03-12T15:24:26Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > As far as this reflects the War on Terror and Bush goes, well, we have not won the war that is clear. I hope the US fully supports Spain in investigating this crime and finding those responsible. I hope that is the action that President Bush takes and I hope President Kerry will continue that support in '05. I agree, but that ain’t the ‘War on Terror’ - that’s what would have happened anyway, without the necessity for gung-ho titles. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/49 "2004-03-12T15:34:51Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > excuse me, but BULL SHIT! > > This is not solid evidence that the war on terror has not been successful. However, it is solid evidence that the war on terror is still ongoing and the fight must go on. \*What’s the alternative? Ignore them while they continue to slaughter innocent people and hope they go away? \* I think not. Or maybe, just maybe, implement policies and actions that actually adress the problem, instead of, I don´t know, invading Iraq under the pretence of combating terrorism… ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/50 "2004-03-12T16:14:28Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Of course, if it _is_ the work of _al Qaeda,_ then the bombing is also solid evidence that Bush’s “war on terror” has not been successful. > > Though I’m sure there will be no limit to the number of Bush apologists who will brand any such analysis as exploiting the tragedy, even as they prepare yet another “Remember 9/11 – vote Bush” TV commercial… So America is now responsible for security of _every_ country in the world? :rolleyes: You really are a simple little fool, **Rjung**. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/51 "2004-03-12T16:43:49Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > So America is now responsible for security of _every_ country in the world? :rolleyes: You really are a simple little fool, **Rjung**. What? You mean they aren’t? Hmmm, what the bloody hell were they fighting in Iraq for then? Either time? It is hardly surprising that some people think that America is responsible for the world’s security; American participation in and precipitation of wars in modern times surely suggests that America strives to be just exactly that. Is it really so surprising that people are starting to believe and expect it? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/52 "2004-03-12T18:58:29Z")
I don’t suppose anyone here reads Basque and can tell us what the original said, but apparently ETA has now denied responsibility: > **[Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines](https://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=2&u=%2Fap%2F20040312%2Fap_on_re_eu%2Fspain_bombings_eta)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo! News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. > **[Breaking International News & Views](https://www.reuters.com/)** Another source says ETA also called in the denial to the Basque TV station: [http://www.elpais.es](http://www.elpais.es) (front page story as of my posting) “El ministro de Interior, Ángel Acebes, ha vuelto a insistir en que el principal sospechoso es ETA, pero la organización ha negado su responsabilidad mediante una llamada a la televisión vasca. Las pesquisas policiales concluyen además que los detonadores y explosivos no son los usados habitualmente por ETA.” Trans. \* Interior Minister Angel Acebes, has once again insisted that the primary suspect is ETA, but the organization has denied responsibility through a telephone call to Basque TV. In addition, police conclude that the detonators and explosives are not those normally used b ETA.\* (Links to additional stories on El País link.) Does anyone know whether ETA has ever denied responsibility for an attack which was later shown to be their responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/53 "2004-03-12T19:13:08Z")
[CBC:](http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/03/12/world/madrid040312) > [@](#): > > A Basque TV station reported that it had received a note from the Basque separatist group ETA saying it was not responsible for the bombs placed in commuter trains. > > And the Basque newspaper Gara told The Associated Press that it had been told the same thing by a person claiming to represent ETA. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/54 "2004-03-12T19:38:46Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Does anyone know whether ETA has ever denied responsibility for an attack which was later shown to be their responsibility? Paddy Woodworth, an Irish journalist who lived in the Basque country for years and has written a (very good BTW) book on ETA, was on the television a short time ago saying he couldn’t remember them ever doing so. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/55 "2004-03-12T19:52:06Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > So America is now responsible for security of _every_ country in the world? Considering that wasn’t what I wrote, I can only conclude your reading comprehension skills are as fucked up as you are. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/56 "2004-03-12T20:06:30Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Paddy Woodworth, an Irish journalist who lived in the Basque country for years and has written a (very good BTW) book on ETA, was on the television a short time ago saying he couldn’t remember them ever doing so. Really, what would be the point? If you’re a terrorist, and you think your actions are going to promote your cause, what would be the point of not claiming responsibility? It would be like having a commercial without the name of the product or the company. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/57 "2004-03-12T20:31:25Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Really, what would be the point? If you’re a terrorist, and you think your actions are going to promote your cause, what would be the point of not claiming responsibility? It would be like having a commercial without the name of the product or the company. We’ll I did wonder what the hell M-life was for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/58 "2004-03-13T00:17:12Z")
> [@GoHeels](#): > > Has anybody heard from RedFury? I seem to recall he lived in Spain, although I’m not sure he was from Madrid. > > RedFury, I hope you’re OK. I hope you drop in on this thread to let us know you’re all right. > > My heart aches for Spain - an incredibly beautiful country with great people and a proud culture. > > I guess we are all Spaniards now. **RedFury** was from Spain, but IIRC, his last location listing was the Dominican Republic. No doubt, if **RF** s able to, he’s busy trying to find out what happened and check on his family’s (if any) well being, not to mention that I’m sure he’s doing whatever he can to help his fellow countrymen. I’m curious as to how the investigations of this event are going to turn out. Spain has found **a lot** of folks prepping for some kind of attack in recent months, and yet they were unable to stop this one. Was it because their intelligence agencies made the same kind of screw ups that US agencies made before 9/11, or was this group perfectly hidden? Or did the US intelligence agencies have information about this attack, but didn’t turn it over to the Spanish because it would “compromise” US sources of intelligence? Sadly, I don’t think that very many folks have learned the most important thing they should have from 9/11: Some events should **not** be used for political football! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/59 "2004-03-13T01:09:17Z")
> [@](#): > > (AP) - [2.3 million] Spaniards poured into the [Madrid] streets Friday, chanting “Cowards!” and “Assassins!” in a protest of the bombings that killed 199 people. > > […] > > In a show of national unity, massive crowds also gathered in Barcelona, Seville, Valencia and even in Spain’s Canary Islands off Western Africa. [This massive protest](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040312/ap_on_re_eu/spain_bombings_2) is really something special, but I have to ask: is this a common European response, is it a Spanish one or is it unique in itself? The other thing that’s nagging at me is that, as moved as I am about this national demonstration, I’m also a bit jealous. I wish Americans had marched on September 12. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725/60 "2004-03-13T01:39:52Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > [This massive protest](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040312/ap_on_re_eu/spain_bombings_2) is really something special, but I have to ask: is this a common European response, is it a Spanish one or is it unique in itself? > > The other thing that’s nagging at me is that, as moved as I am about this national demonstration, I’m also a bit jealous. I wish Americans had marched on September 12. Marches and all that jazz is quite SOP after an ETA attack in Spain; as a side note, even here (Uruguay, mostly Spaniard and Italian decendency) there was a march to the Spanish embassy, have I had known about it in advance I would have attended it. It may be a Spanish trait, I don´t know, but certainly this is not unheard of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-bombing-in-madrid/233725.md?page=4)