# Damn, but it's good to be a Blue stater! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644 "2004-11-08T14:36:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/161 "2004-11-10T19:43:42Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > For that matter what did Carter do to deserve a hostage crisis in his term. > > You seem to want someone to blame. Please tell me who that someone is? There _has_ to be a reason behind it, we’re just trying to figure it out. By the way it’s not a “someone”, although “someone” can certainly make things worse for us. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/162 "2004-11-10T19:45:32Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Well, what do you propose, then? I’m all ears. > > The country was targeted by terrorism well before the Bush Administration took office. What during the Clinton administration brought these attacks upon us? > > You seem to be calling yourself a Democrat, **GaWd**. Do you want to field this? If you seriously want the answers, read the book **Ghost Wars**. Bear in mind that the first attack happened just after Clinton’s inaugration, so you’d be more honest if you asked what during Bush I and Reagan’s administrations brought these attacks upon us. And if you want to know what I propose? Kill Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda leadership, a task that seemed not to interest Bush II. In 2002, not even 6 months after 9/11, Bush said that he was not going to pursue bin Laden. Instead, he started a war with a dictatorship, that while thoroughly nasty, had **no** relationship to Al Qaeda and was not in any way responsible for 9/11. Instead of scotching terrorism, Bush has _created a new haven_ for terrorism. How the fuck does that make our country safer? The sad thing is that we know where bin Laden is, in Northwest Pakistan. But we can’t go after him because an American military operation in Pakistan’s borders would destabilize Musharraf’s government and likely cause a new government that would be hotile to the US to arise there. Until you have the honesty to admit the truth that Bush has fucked up the war, there’s not much point in further discussion with you. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/163 "2004-11-10T19:46:16Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Don’t some liberals on this board do the same thing? They’ll insult an entire state as being full of ignorant bigots. > > It happens every time a state has gay marriage bans on the ballot. 57% of my state is composed of ignorant bigots. History has repeatedly shown that bigots exist in large numbers, often making up a majority. 2004 is no different. To believe that we’ve somehow overcome all of our irrational prejudices and only the prejudices of yesteryear are the bad ones, is hopelessly naive thinking on the conservatives part. Mark my words, 30 years from now our country will be ashamed that those initiatives passed. I know this, just like I knew for a fact that the WMDs in Iraq were made up bullshit even when 70% of the country believed they existed. I’m right, and time will prove me right. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/164 "2004-11-10T19:47:43Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > For that matter what did Carter do to deserve a hostage crisis in his term. > > You seem to want someone to blame. Please tell me who that someone is? Look to our past and current foreign policy and events surrounding Gulf War I/II, and I htink with a little objectivity you’ll have your answer. Sam ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/165 "2004-11-10T19:51:42Z")
Also keep in mind SH was our boy (holds up picture of Rummy shaking hands). Osama was our boy too. I wonder if Musharref will be a head ache 20 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/166 "2004-11-10T19:53:24Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Also keep in mind SH was our boy (holds up picture of Rummy shaking hands). Osama was our boy too. > > I wonder if Musharref will be a head ache 20 years from now. Or maybe Allawi if he’s alive… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/167 "2004-11-10T20:12:47Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Globally, Americans are not loved. We haven’t been loved as a group of people in a long time for our big stick and our big balls, and our economic situation(envy). It’s not a fucking surprise-at least to me-that people want to attack us and have and will continue to want to. > > And Bush’s policies over the last 4 years have been so hamfisted and brutish that anti-american sentiment has risen to levels never encountered before. Can’t agree. There were times equivalent to or worse than this. I seem to recall a sitting American president, on a state visit to France, being met with massive and violent street demonstrations in the streets of Paris. Said president was Jimmy Carter. I also recall tons of anti-American sentiment abroad during the Reagan Administration. Yet that administration left us with more allies than we had when we started. Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia are all NATO countries now. Amazing, after a period of such strident anti-Americanism. Maybe, though, you’re referring to things like protests as an expression of national will. If that were so, Bush wouldn’t have stood a chance after large protests like were seen in Seattle and Washington. The war, **gobear** , has had its ups and downs. In this, it is remarkably similar to most wars in history. Fallujah will soon be cleaned out of insurgents, though, and Najaf has been quieted. This can only be seen as progress. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/168 "2004-11-10T20:12:53Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Or maybe Allawi if he’s alive… Lol he’s right in my face and I forgot about him. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/169 "2004-11-10T20:14:06Z")
Shocking. You’re forgetting lots of things lately. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/170 "2004-11-10T20:22:51Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Fallujah will soon be cleaned out of insurgents, Wanna bet? My money is that after announcing an offensive for weeks, the insurgents put down their AK47s and blended into the populace. Once we’re out, we’ll be right back we’re we started. > [@](#): > > and Najaf has been quieted. This can only be seen as progress. Quieting down? I don’t know what you mean but see above. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/171 "2004-11-10T20:48:25Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Can’t agree. There were times equivalent to or worse than this. Ok, don’t agree. It’s your prerogative. > [@](#): > > I seem to recall a sitting American president, on a state visit to France, being met with massive and violent street demonstrations in the streets of Paris. Said president was Jimmy Carter. I guess “long time” is relative… > [@](#): > > I also recall tons of anti-American sentiment abroad during the Reagan Administration. Yet that administration left us with more allies than we had when we started. > > Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia are all NATO countries now. Amazing, after a period of such strident anti-Americanism. And they’re HUGE allies now. I can see that all of our NATO brothers and sisters are just DYING to send their sons and daughters into Iraq and “DEFEND FREEDOM”. Some allies. > [@](#): > > Maybe, though, you’re referring to things like protests as an expression of national will. If that were so, Bush wouldn’t have stood a chance after large protests like were seen in Seattle and Washington. Huh? WTF are you talking about? What does national will have to do with international opinions of Americans in general and how they react to our moronic policies? > [@](#): > > Fallujah will soon be cleaned out of insurgents, though, and Najaf has been quieted. This can only be seen as progress. Hah! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/172 "2004-11-10T20:57:54Z")
I mentioned that only because you seem to be measuring anti-Americanism abroad on protests and “street” opinion. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/173 "2004-11-10T21:04:25Z")
No, you mentioned that because you either assumed incorrectly where my opinion comes from, or you were just being an ass again. My guess is some combination of both is closer to the truth. And please begin using quotes, for fuck’s sake. It’s hard enough reading the filth you spew without having to go over entire previous posts to see what it is you’re going on about. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/174 "2004-11-10T21:08:32Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > And they’re HUGE allies now. I can see that all of our NATO brothers and sisters are just DYING to send their sons and daughters into Iraq and “DEFEND FREEDOM”. Some allies. No, it’s true. Not all of our NATO allies provided troops. However, all of the formerly Communist members of NATO, those countries that I mentioned, did in fact send troops. Every single last one of them. You might want to check these things out before you post. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/175 "2004-11-10T21:45:21Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > No, it’s true. Not all of our NATO allies provided troops. > > However, all of the formerly Communist members of NATO, those countries that I mentioned, did in fact send troops. > > Every single last one of them. > > You might want to check these things out before you post. I know they sent troops, but how fucking many, Moto? 300 apiece? Did Poland send like 3000 or something? I’d say it was another limp-dicked attempt to “prove” to the world that the US was right because our “Coalition of the willing”(Hah!), sent troops to aid us in the “battle for freedom”. I knew this all before I posted, I simply don’t consider the commitment made to us by our allies much of a commitment at all. Sam ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/176 "2004-11-10T22:36:35Z")
Nice hijack but it’s gone on long enoug - let’s get back to one itsy bitsy question - What great wisdom do we blue staters need to learn from the red staters? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/177 "2004-11-10T23:02:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > What great wisdom do we blue staters need to learn from the red staters? That it takes 270 to win. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/178 "2004-11-10T23:15:41Z")
That people in said red states shouldn’t be written off. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/179 "2004-11-11T00:32:34Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > What great wisdom do we blue staters need to learn from the red staters? The importance of not using com-pli-ca-ted words when explaining our politics? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644/180 "2004-11-11T00:40:18Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > The importance of not using com-pli-ca-ted words when explaining our politics? Usually, people have something to show for their smarts. I suggest your party filibuster while it can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-but-its-good-to-be-a-blue-stater/273644.md?page=10)