# Damn E-Bay! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485 "2010-11-04T17:35:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/21 "2010-11-06T01:12:43Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’m fairly certain that I would have rated such a seller lower than neutral, and I also would have been upset at EBay’s institutional bias toward protecting both the seller and themselves by resisting the buyer’s attempt to give an honest rating.. How does “are you sure” resist? I mean, it’s one extra click, big fucking deal. Nor does you giving the seller poor FB hurt them, they are not “protecting” themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/22 "2010-11-06T01:15:06Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The OP was not ranting about the shipper. Were you halfway literate, you might have noticed that the description of the shipper’s actions were an explanation for the complaint against EBay. A perfectly valid and justified complaint. What complaint- that he had to click the box again and confirm? How is that legit? And, the shippers actions made up for the large bulk of his OP. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/23 "2010-11-06T01:18:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The OP was not ranting about the shipper. Were you halfway literate, you might have noticed that the description of the shipper’s actions were an explanation for the complaint against EBay. A perfectly valid and justified complaint. What, the having to select “Yes, I’m sure” when leaving Neutral feedback? You think that merits a Pit thread? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/24 "2010-11-06T01:54:40Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I thought this was going to be about how hard it is to narrow down searches on Ebay. I mean, I typed in “cigarette lighter” and I got over 15,000 matches. _groan_ ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/25 "2010-11-06T02:37:49Z")
I’d have left negative feedback just because he didn’t put it in a proper shipping box (just plain cardboard would have been acceptable). Even though it comes in a box, it’s poor shipping etiquette not to put the box in a neutral-looking box. I mean, when shipping a new cell phone, Tmobile puts the product box in another box so someone won’t be tempted to rip it open and rip you off; that’s plain common sense. Speed of shipping, however, isn’t guaranteed as far as I know, and you should have talked to the seller BEFORE hitting the buy button. Waiting until after he already had your money means he has no further incentive to accommodate you. That’s \*\*your \*\*bad. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/26 "2010-11-06T03:06:29Z")
Fucking Ebay. Oh, I guess I should say something. If Ebay expects it’s buyer/seller rating system to be worth a damn, it needs to fucking stop running interference when someone wants to leave anything other than a ‘this was better than a blow job’ experience rating. If Ebay’s efforts result in less legitimate neutral or shit ratings, then no one will give a shit about the ratings. A seller with 10 billion positive ratings can still be a shit seller because Ebay wants to blow unicorn and rainbow smoke up everyone’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/27 "2010-11-06T06:39:35Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Fucking Ebay. > > If Ebay expects it’s buyer/seller rating system to be worth a damn, it needs to fucking stop running interference … Right, like having to click on “are you sure” is fucking running interference. :rolleyes:jeezusfuckingkeerist. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/28 "2010-11-06T11:49:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right, like having to click on “are you sure” is fucking running interference. :rolleyes:jeezusfuckingkeerist. Well yeah, it can be. Case in point: I bought an item, paid with paypal, and had it shipped to an offspring in Boston. The item shipped and I had a tracking number. I tracked it from wherever to the delivery depot in Mass and then tracked it back to wherever. Interesting. After looking very carefully at all the documentation that had been exchanged between myself and the seller I realized that the seller had addressed the package to ‘my offspring, apt A1, Boston, MA 12345’. Hmmm. I double checked to be sure I had included the street name in my instructions and yes, I had. I emailed the seller and asked that she please reship the item. No response. I tracked down her contact details and called her (international call from the UK) and left a message. Got a brief email saying she “doesn’t accept returns”. So I filed a claim with paypal. And was refunded by them. And no further contact from the seller (I did send subsequent emails to her explaining the situation yet again and what I was going to do). Leaving negative feedback still made me feel vaguely guilty especially after getting two “are you really, really sure you want to be a big fat meany” messages from ebay. And a month later I received a message from ebay asking if I would agree to “erase the negative feedback by mutual agreement?” I’m pretty pathetic but even I managed to say “no”. Still, I felt bad - especially after finally (after receiving the refund from paypal) getting an email from the seller “apologizing” and claiming that she had been in hospital and suffering from a terminal illness or some such rubbish (her story didn’t exactly jive with the timing, but you never know). Do sellers have to click through “are you really really sure you want to be a big meany” messages when they leave negative feedback? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/29 "2010-11-06T16:37:58Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Leaving negative feedback still made me feel vaguely guilty especially after getting two “are you really, really sure you want to be a big fat meany” messages from ebay. And a month later I received a message from ebay asking if I would agree to “erase the negative feedback by mutual agreement?” > > Do sellers have to click through “are you really really sure you want to be a big meany” messages when they leave negative feedback? Well, the email asking to withdraw the NEg was initiated by the seller. It just comes _through_ eBay. I really have no trouble with “are you sure”. And, this came about because now sellers **can’t** leave Negative Feedback for buyers, that has been gone for about 3 years. So, a “are you sure” click is only fair. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/30 "2010-11-06T17:02:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And, this came about because now sellers **can’t** leave Negative Feedback for buyers, that has been gone for about 3 years. I did not know this. So Ebay really doesn’t have an interest in keeping the rating system honest. They should just scrap it. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/31 "2010-11-06T18:35:17Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I typed in “cigarette lighter” and I got over 15,000 matches. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/32 "2010-11-07T00:09:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And, this came about because now sellers **can’t** leave Negative Feedback for buyers, that has been gone for about 3 years. Ahh. Ignorance fought. I haven’t used ebay since I left the UK so I didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/33 "2010-11-08T11:48:59Z")
Well ebay have always been annoying, leaving neutral feedback sounds fair after all you did get your item and it was a fair price. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/34 "2010-11-08T15:05:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And, this came about because now sellers **can’t** leave Negative Feedback for buyers, that has been gone for about 3 years. About damned time. I got negative feedback as a buyer once…because I left negative feedback about the seller. I paid right away and got charged extra for shipping that I didn’t get. That was really lame. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/35 "2010-11-08T16:53:01Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > About damned time. I got negative feedback as a buyer once…because I left negative feedback about the seller. I paid right away and got charged extra for shipping that I didn’t get. That was really lame. Yes, and that’s why it happened. By and large sellers weren’t leaving NEGs for deserving Bad Buyers\*, but just as retaliation for a NEG- and thus they could then file to have both feedback mutually withdrawn. True, NPB (non-paying bidder) are a scourge, but filing a NPB vs a buyer is far worse than handing out a NEG. So, there was little need for sellers to NEG a buyer anyway (note I say “little”- besides NPB there certainly are a few other times where a buyer could turn bad, but they were very rare). So Sellers were withholding FB from buyers and vice-versa, no one was getting any decent FB. - Often, a seller would not leave even a Bad Buyer a NEG until the buyer had left FB first, since a NEG really hurts a seller and Buyers also retaliated. The eBay feedback boards generally recommended to not leave a NPB a Neg due to fear of reprisal. So, feedback was broken that way too. Good Buyers were not leaving Bad Sellers NEGs due to fears of retaliation, Good Sellers were not leaving NEGs for Bad Buyers for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![velvetjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f9b8f/32.png) [@velvetjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velvetjones)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/36 "2010-11-08T17:11:13Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I typed in “cigarette lighter” and I got over 15,000 matches. > [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > :smack: I didn’t get this until BrotherCadfael’s head smack. It’s like you virtually slapped it into my head. :smack: With regard to the OP: Thanks for reminding me never to post my petty grievances in the pit. These people are harsh. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/37 "2010-11-08T17:11:16Z")
eBay should have simply allowed both parties to leave feedback. However, feedback should have been concealed until either both parties had left it, or a reasonable period of time had passed (say, two weeks). This way, the buyer could leave neg feedback when the item arrived, if warranted, secure in the knowledge that the seller couldn’t leave retaliatory feedback. And once the deadline had passed, and one party had left feedback but the other hadn’t, then the single feedback would show, but the window for leaving the feedback would be closed. I think that sellers had abused the feedback, just as buyers had. I rarely even glance at eBay any longer, because there are too many people who use it as a business, and frankly, if I want to shop online at a business, I don’t want to do it with an auction site. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/38 "2010-11-12T05:34:37Z")
You have to remember paypal isn’t equal for everyone. When I had my own business, I used PayPay as a form of payment. For the first three months I was restricted. That meant that when I got paid I had to wait (I think it was) 20 days to get those funds. So a lot of eBay sellers who have this restriction will wait as long as possible before shipping. After 3 months I got my restriction lifted and I was able to get my money out ASAP. That is until I had a sale of $700.00. This amount flagged Paypal and the restriction went back into place, where every sale was held for 20 days and this restriction lasted 4 months. Then it was lifted again, and all my sales I was able to get immediately. And PayPal is great, I can tell you horror stories about Google Checkout, as others can too. If you were really dis-satisfied you should’ve left a negative. You’re the buyer and he’s the seller. It’s your opinion and what ever good or bad you’re entitled to it. After all the seller can always leave a follow up to a bad response. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485/39 "2010-11-12T05:45:49Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > You have to remember paypal isn’t equal for everyone. When I had my own business, I used PayPay as a form of payment. For the first three months I was restricted. That meant that when I got paid I had to wait (I think it was) 20 days to get those funds. > > So a lot of eBay sellers who have this restriction will wait as long as possible before shipping. . Or, until you rcvd Positive Feedback from the buyer, which indicated the buyer had rcvd the goods, which is why a smart seller would ship extra fast. In fact, if you waited 20 days to ship, you risked getting NEGs and other problems from eBay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-e-bay/559485.md?page=1)