# Damn Europlugs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673 "2018-01-15T09:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/41 "2018-01-18T11:09:58Z")
I’m going to chalk this up to being in a former Soviet Republic. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/42 "2018-01-18T14:36:05Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > The various plugs/sockets were different sizes and pin separation so that they could not interchange. Generally 13A was for cookers, most appliances were 5A and small lighting circuits were 2A. So if I understand you correctly, where I see a “typical” three-prong UK plug, you see a “modern” UK plug, and the older variants differ subtly? And I would only see them when in an old house or on an old appliance? The only differences I know of here are electric stoves, which have a seperate power line by themselves - I think 16 A? - and a seperate breaker, because they draw so much power. But that’s the landlord/ houseowners Job, to pay qualfied workers to properly install the stove, and then each renter just gets the existing (correctly wired) stove. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/43 "2018-01-18T14:45:45Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > if I had an adapter that worked with every receptacle, I’d just plug my US charger into it. The problem is that all the receptacles are different. Some are too loose and the plugs fall out, others have a slightly different hole placement so the plug won’t fit. Go Independent with a Generator? 😉 Is the weather good enough for a solar Panel? If you are a renter, can you legally require your landlord to fix the sockets? How much do you trust the wiring? If the wiring is Standard, you could buy modern wall sockets that fit your plugs at the DIY market, turn off the breaker, and Switch them against the old ones? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/44 "2018-01-18T16:31:32Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > No, I meant what I said. These are the plugs and sockets I have in my house (apologies for the image quality, the pics were taken with my mobile phone in crappy lighting and cropped on my phone. If necessary, look up my original link): > > Type C socket, perfectly circular, 36mm diameter: [http://sk.uploads.im/t/HvhFq.jpg](http://sk.uploads.im/t/HvhFq.jpg) Allows grounded type F, ungrounded europlug type C and the round type C plug. > Type F socket, with ground prongs and extra blocking features for the old, round type C plugs, 36mm max diameter: [http://sk.uploads.im/t/tRyfC.jpg](http://sk.uploads.im/t/tRyfC.jpg) Allows type F and the narrow europlug type C plugs. > Europlug type C socket: [http://uploads.im/5VwXi.jpg](http://uploads.im/5VwXi.jpg) Allows only europlug type C plugs. > > Type F plug: [http://uploads.im/v7Qnp.jpg](http://uploads.im/v7Qnp.jpg) Max diameter 36mm. Has contacts for the ground prongs in the type F socket, cutouts for the blocking features in type F sockets and a hole for the ground prong in type E sockets. Fits type C, type E and type F sockets. > Narrow europlug type C plug: [http://uploads.im/tGfMU.jpg](http://uploads.im/tGfMU.jpg) Max width 36mm. Fits type C, type E and type F sockets. The design allows the width to fit into the irregular shape of the type F socket. > Old style circular type C plug: [http://uploads.im/6LxtB.jpg](http://uploads.im/6LxtB.jpg) Perfectly circular, 36mm diameter. No cutouts, no ground prongs. Fits only type C sockets. Slowly becoming obsolete in my part of the world, replaced by either type F plugs or europlug type C plugs. > > All plugs have 4mm prongs and the same prong distance, so in that respect they’re perfectly compatible. It’s all about whether or not the plug is physically able to fit in the socket. And the advantage of this system is that if you have an old appliance with an old ungrounded plug (old style type C plug), it can be plugged into a socket located in a place where ground isn’t considered necessary. OTOH, if the location of your socket means having a ground lead is a good idea (e.g. in the bathroom or the kitchen), it’s physically impossible to plug in an old appliance which neither is grounded nor is considered harmless enough to not require a ground lead. > > Of course, since national standards differ somewhat, even within Europe, YMM(probably)V. Ah, now I see what you mean. I was talking about the ungrounded flat ones. Sorry for the confusion! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/45 "2018-01-18T20:27:48Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > So if I understand you correctly, where I see a “typical” three-prong UK plug, you see a “modern” UK plug, and the older variants differ subtly? And I would only see them when in an old house or on an old appliance? All the old types were ‘round-pin’ ones. None of them had fuses and relied on protection from an appropriate-sized wire-wound fuse at the fusebox. Appliances all came without a plug and you were supposed to buy the correct one separately and put it on yourself. In recent years they have mandated that all appliances must come with a plug fitted (usually permanently fitted) and it will usually be the BS1363 type. Although the desk lamps we got at the office all came with a European two-pin type and an adaptor to convert it to the British system. I bought an identical one for home, cut the plug off and put a proper one on. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/46 "2018-01-18T21:09:20Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > They’re not supposed to; different countries use different plug types (and some countries use two, I’m glaring at you Italy), but a type F is supposed to be a type F and the local norm is supposed to be a direct translation of the DIN which originated those. I wonder if your comment about Italy here may explain some minor confusion for me. I have used [this exact adapter](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004SY5O5K/ref=asc_df_B004SY5O5K5340919/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B004SY5O5K&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194017009123&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1965147834173458170&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021760&hvtargid=pla-309635877576) in France, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands, Denmark, Austria, Hungary AND Italy without any problems. Until I looked at the page with all the types of plugs and sockets linked upthread I didn’t even realize Italy was an odd case. And now looking at the page for that product on Amazon I see it says it doesn’t work in Italy but I know for a fact that it does. Or at least did in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/47 "2018-01-19T07:44:13Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > How much do you trust the wiring? I could post pictures that would curl your hair. Even at the power poles it is a complete rat’s nest. Sagging power lines? String up a rope between poles and use zipties to support it. I don’t think I’ve seen a wire nut, just twist the bare ends of the wires together. Don’t even bother with electrical tape. Love the people though. A real git-r-done spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/48 "2018-01-19T08:32:11Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I wonder if your comment about Italy here may explain some minor confusion for me. I have used [this exact adapter](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004SY5O5K/ref=asc_df_B004SY5O5K5340919/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B004SY5O5K&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194017009123&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1965147834173458170&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021760&hvtargid=pla-309635877576) in France, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands, Denmark, Austria, Hungary AND Italy without any problems. > > Until I looked at the page with all the types of plugs and sockets linked upthread I didn’t even realize Italy was an odd case. And now looking at the page for that product on Amazon I see it says it doesn’t work in Italy but I know for a fact that it does. Or at least did in 2016. Well, Italy officially uses type L, although [this list](https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plug-voltage-by-country/) also indicates C and F. The profile of the jack for L is the same as for type C, but it’s got three prongs. Extraofficially, they also use types E and J along with the previous three. Type J is the Swiss type: I expect it won’t surprise you to learn that it happens to be common close to the Swiss border. Type E is used in France; again, more common in the North of Italy than in the South. E and F have this hybrid thing going on where computers and other electronic equipment often have plugs which are compatible with both types of sockets; your adapter is one of those. They’re also compatible with Cs but then you don’t have the grounding feature. Get a few sockets compatible with E and/or F around your factory and you’re able to source equipment from a lot more places without having to change the jacks. One of these centuries we’ll stop linking our national pride to the size of our electrical sockets… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/49 "2018-01-19T08:33:28Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > I could post pictures that would curl your hair. Even at the power poles it is a complete rat’s nest. Sagging power lines? String up a rope between poles and use zipties to support it. I don’t think I’ve seen a wire nut, just twist the bare ends of the wires together. Don’t even bother with electrical tape. In that case, I would try and buy one of those very expensive, especially made for Computers, Extension socket chains, that protects against high-spike surges, and plug everything into that. Because if the wiring is … not up to code, plugs falling out of sockets would be less of a danger for me than a sudden spike frying my Hardware or starting a fire because the breakers aren’t up to it. But then, our breaker boxes look like this [Elektrischer Verteiler – Wikipedia](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektrischer_Verteiler#/media/File:Unterverteilung.jpg) and not like the Picture above, so an US style box would also raise my hair. And I’ve seen Pictures of how poor Areas in US (Detroit?) also have tangles of loose wires hanging around over streets - like 3rd world countries - because of 4 different grids, and no political plan to overhaul, bring up to modern Standards and unifiy the electric System (which would also help distribute solar and wind energy everywhere). ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/50 "2018-01-19T11:50:03Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > And I’ve seen Pictures of how poor Areas in US (Detroit?) also have tangles of loose wires hanging around over streets - like 3rd world countries - because of 4 different grids, and no political plan to overhaul, bring up to modern Standards and unifiy the electric System (which would also help distribute solar and wind energy everywhere). dafuq? I don’t know what you saw, but it ain’t Detroit. almost all of southeast Michigan is run by DTE Energy. “4 different grids?” ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/51 "2018-01-19T14:45:11Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > dafuq? > > I don’t know what you saw, but it ain’t Detroit. almost all of southeast Michigan is run by DTE Energy. The TV Report was some years back, so I don’t remember which US City it was. > [@](#): > > “4 different grids?” A map of the US Shows 4 Major different Areas [North American power transmission grid - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_U.S._power_transmission_grid) (plus smaller ones). This is often brought up when talking about either renewable energy (producing wind on the coast, solar in the desert and then transporting the power to where it’s needed) or in relation to Brown-Outs (similar Problem, and unreliability of old infrastructure). Both for reliability/ safety, and to help renewable energy, experts advocate a complete overhaus of the existing grid and replacing it with one grid of current safety Standard. But like bridges and roads, that would a Major Investment of government Money, which (despite Advantages and Jobs) is difficult to pass in current political constellation. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/52 "2018-01-19T14:56:50Z")
An older article (2003) about the state of the US power grid: [US-Blackout: Stromnetz wie in der Dritten Welt - DER SPIEGEL](http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/us-blackout-stromnetz-wie-in-der-dritten-welt-a-261317.html) This is from 2017, about how climate Change means more energy, thus putting an additional burden on the Grid [US-Stromnetz: Klimawandel wird teuer - Mehrverbrauch durch künftige Sommerhitze erfordert teure Investitionen ins Stromnetz - scinexx.de](http://www.scinexx.de/wissen-aktuell-21130-2017-02-07.html) This is from 2012 - how the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy reveals (Yet again) how behind the times the power grid in US is [ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.](http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2012-10/usa-sandy-infrastruktur) Another Report before Sandy hit [Infrastruktur: Marodes Amerika](http://www.wiwo.de/politik/ausland/infrastruktur-marodes-amerika/7314274-all.html) ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673/53 "2018-01-19T14:58:09Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I don’t know what you saw, but it ain’t Detroit. almost all of southeast Michigan is run by DTE Energy. And has DTE Energy switched from open-air wires to Underground wires? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-europlugs/806673.md?page=2)