# Damn fool war **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 11, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017 "2003-04-11T12:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![braintree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@braintree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braintree)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/181 "2003-04-15T22:21:28Z")
“'1) President Bush is constantly tying 9/11 and Saddam Hussein together in his speeches WITHOUT EVER MAKING THE CRUCIAL DISTINCTION THAT IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.” (my emphasis)’" Technically you’ve got me there but the distinction is virtually meaningless and is dwarfed by the bigger picture. What I should have said is that Bush kept tying 9/11 and Iraq together WITHOUT EVER MENTIONING THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT SADDAM HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT AND, THEREFORE, HE ALMOST CERTAINLY DID NOT. As a result of President Bush’s misdirection 44% of all Americans are now wrongly of the opnion that Iraq was definitely involved or behind the attacks. Now that you’re done hair-splitting we’re still stuck with a pious double-talking sleazeball of a president and what appears to be a deliberately misinformed public. But you won that round, xtisme. Enjoy your victory. And thank you Master for your visitation. My nose is brown and happy. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/182 "2003-04-15T23:43:23Z")
Where on earth did all these conservatives come from, fer cryin’ out loud? If those who oppose the invasion are liberal, then it follows that the pros are conservative. Every time, it seem’s, a republican disagrees with someone, that person (or idea) becomes liberal. It’s easy, isn’t it, to cheer for the “winning” team. Re-read Cecil’s reply. What more conservative reasons for opposition could one espouse? It is, and shall remain, a damn fool war. Regardless of the outcome. Regardless of the consequences. And regardless of a bunch of weepy-eyed, armchair, follow-the-crowd republicans. As seen on Fox News. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/183 "2003-04-15T23:44:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Why after years and years of being an unbiased, beacon of enlightenment did Cecil have to poison his life work and come out as a liberal. Sheesh! Cecil’s whole life just went down the shitter? All because he came out(this time) as a liberal. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Now we are all forced to question whether our source still wishes to fight ignorance or spew his own ignorance… ::::imagining Cecil, in a Slug cartoon, imitating Linda Blair:::: ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/184 "2003-04-15T23:47:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thromp \* > Why after years and years of being an unbiased, beacon of enlightenment did Cecil have to poison his life work and come out as a liberal. You’re just hurtin’ because you’ve been shown that intelligence does not equal conservative. Guess you’ll have to learn to cope. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/185 "2003-04-16T00:00:25Z")
It is very telling that people like **Thromp** do not address the points that Cecil raised; they only whine that he’s a liberal. Address the issues, and I might find you have an opinion I can respect, if not agree with. Piss and moan about how dismayed you are that Cecil happens to have different political views than you, as if you discovered he’s a vampire or Satan worshipper, and you deserve nothing but disdain. ---
**Author:** ![Mearl\_Dox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Mearl\_Dox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mearl_Dox)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/186 "2003-04-16T00:40:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cecil Adams \* > \*\*Fair enough. My views on this subject are unexceptional, so I’ll be brief. . . \*\* Thank you for explaining your reasons, Cecil. It cheered me up today to see you’d come in to tell us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/187 "2003-04-16T02:02:03Z")
You know, if any person other than the Managing Editor of the Chicago Reader has a right to express his own opinions on this board, it would have to be **Unka Cece**. Disagree with him? That’s your right. Wanna stop him from saying what he thinks? You’re not only on the wrong board; you’re in the wrong country. This is America, where freedom of speech is guaranteed in the Constitution that our President, Congress, and judges are sworn to uphold. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > \*\*Please explain to me how this war is in any way like VietNam. > > Haj \*\* I’m not out to argue with you, **Haj** , but one similarity that comes readily to mind is the fact that it’s a war prosecuted for reasons which seem good to them by the leaders of the country to which a large proportion of the country’s citizenry is opposed. There are obvious differences – notably the length of time and the ability to reach the goals we’ve set. But I trust you’ll grant that basic similarity – and the consequences in terms of bitter animosity between hawks and doves – which will probably continue in much the way that it did in the Vietnam Era. “The people that will not learn from history…” ☹ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/188 "2003-04-16T04:09:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > **You know, if any person other than the Managing Editor of the Chicago Reader has a right to express his own opinions on this board, it would have to be Unka Cece. Disagree with him? That’s your right. Wanna stop him from saying what he thinks? You’re not only on the wrong board; you’re in the wrong country. This is America, where freedom of speech is guaranteed in the Constitution that our President, Congress, and judges are sworn to uphold.** > > I agree with this part 100%. > > \*\*I’m not out to argue with you, **Haj** , but one similarity that comes readily to mind is the fact that it’s a war prosecuted for reasons which seem good to them by the leaders of the country to which a large proportion of the country’s citizenry is opposed. \*\* I was very young at the time but my understanding is that the proportion of people against the Viet Nam War grew over time. The opposite has been true (so far?) with Gulf War II. Haj ---
**Author:** ![locolobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@locolobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/locolobo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/189 "2003-04-16T07:24:42Z")
Thank you Cecil for sharing your reasoning with us. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cecil Adams \* > \*\* > > Make no mistake. We got into this war because we can do as we like in the world today… > > \*\* The quote above is pretty much what the rest of the world fears about the US right now. Our (as in the rest of the world) hope and fear comes from the fact that this is the country that gave us “Spiderman” and “Star Trek:The Next Generation”. “With great power comes great responsibility.” It would be unfortunate if the hawks interpret “responsibility” to mean undertaking regime change as and where it deems fit, ignoring the long term considerations for short term heroics. Then there is the “Prime Directive”… ---
**Author:** ![locolobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@locolobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/locolobo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/190 "2003-04-16T07:51:12Z")
Thank you Cecil for sharing your reasoning with us. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cecil Adams \* > \*\* > > Make no mistake. We got into this war because we can do as we like in the world today… > > \*\* The quote above is pretty much what the rest of the world fears about the US right now. Our (as in the rest of the world) hope and fear comes from the fact that this is the country that gave us “Spiderman” and “Star Trek:The Next Generation”. “With great power comes great responsibility.” It would be unfortunate if the hawks interpret “responsibility” to mean undertaking regime change as and where it deems fit, ignoring the long term considerations for short term heroics. Then there is the “Prime Directive”… ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/191 "2003-04-16T14:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Then there is the “Prime Directive”… _Please!_ A one-shot plot gimmick for a TV show that metastasized says more about cheapjack American artistic standards than it does about American ideals. ---
**Author:** ![gavinelder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gavinelder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gavinelder)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/192 "2003-04-16T15:10:55Z")
The reason most of us are here is because the beacon of Cecil’s knowledge and intelligence has attracted us. Now some of you question his masterful interpretation of information that leads him to believe this is a damn fool war? If you were all as learned as the Perfect Master you would understand, but until then just take it a little bit at a time so as to not strain yourselves… ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/193 "2003-04-16T15:48:42Z")
This reminds of when it came out that Carl Sagan smoked pot. Some people really freaked that a person they looked up to partook of the evil weed. If someone I looked up to came out with a opinion I strongly disagreed with, I’d at least listen to their arguments as to why they feel that way. And even if I still strongly disagreed, so what? I can still enjoy Sagan’s writings, and Cecil’s columns, even though we might not share 100 percent the same views. It would be a remarkable and extremely unlikely coincidence if we did. I sure as fuck wouldn’t wouldn’t whine about it. “Waaaah! Cecil has the opposite view on a single issue! Waaaah! He’s a liberal/conservative hack! Waaaah! I’ll never read his column again!” What incredible putzes. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/194 "2003-04-16T20:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MLS \* > \*\*I don’t care whether he’s liberal or conservative, but I agree with Kilt-man that I wish Cecil would keep his personal opinion out of the part that is dealing with “fighting ignorance.” \*\* That’s what makes it quirky, that’s what gives it character, that’s what makes the column interesting and original and unique. **Cecil** makes so many amusing and wry remarks on many things, why’s he getting flamed now? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/195 "2003-04-16T23:16:08Z")
This is _great_. Here is a forum where all sides are heard, much unlike O’reilly and his ilk. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/196 "2003-04-17T01:01:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I was very young at the time but my understanding is that the proportion of people against the Viet Nam War grew over time. The opposite has been true (so far?) with Gulf War II. **Haj**. You _are_ correct about public opinion changing about Viet Nam over a long period of time. But you have to remember that it was _years_ This “war” has been so swift(and militarily successful), that public opinion had no time to change or evolve. Things that _could_ change public opinion over time are pretty obvious–a long, protracted occupation, an incursion into another country(Syria, or others), the people of Iraq choosing a government with leaders that we don’t approve of. Name your poison. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/197 "2003-04-17T20:18:16Z")
**Cecil** , thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/198 "2003-04-17T22:18:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\ ***Cecil** makes so many amusing and wry remarks on many things, why’s he getting flamed now? \*\* I’ve noticed there’s something about the Iraq war issue where many people who are for it simply cannot abide opposing views. It’s like holy water to a vampire; they simply cannot tolerate others with different opinions. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/199 "2003-04-17T23:02:51Z")
Amen, **Revtim**. Those who are not wholly pro-war, _and_ pro-Bush are often branded traitors. It’s sad, really. ☹ Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Thromp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Thromp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thromp)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/200 "2003-04-17T23:04:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*It is very telling that people like **Thromp** do not address the points that Cecil raised; they only whine that he’s a liberal. > > Address the issues, and I might find you have an opinion I can respect, if not agree with. Piss and moan about how dismayed you are that Cecil happens to have different political views than you, as if you discovered he’s a vampire or Satan worshipper, and you deserve nothing but disdain. \*\* There you go, that’s exactly my point, that there was no point and no issue that Cecil raised. Those three words (damn fool war) were an attack on our president with nothing to back them up. If Cecil wishes to throw away half his audience and abandon purely factual subject matter in favor for advancing a liberal agenda it is his right do so but many of us would be saddened to see that happen. The previous lack of political bias is why so many of us enjoy this site. If Cecil would have said “History will most likely judge Bush kindly for freeing the people of Iraq and safeguarding the world from a dangerous lunatic. The things he did as a young smart aleck will be all but forgotten except by the damn fools who still can’t understand why we needed this war.” it would have been equally inappropriate **for the straight dope**. This Cecil BBQ would have still been going on; it would just be the people on the other side of the coin holding the flamethrowers. There have been a few people who have said they are going to take their readership/money elsewhere and they are certainly entitle to do so. I’m more forgiving and this single offence hasn’t pissed me off to the point I’m leaving, but it irked me enough to speak up. This is simply a plea to keep the straight dope free of liberal OR conservative commentary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017.md?page=11)