# Damn fool war **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 11, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017 "2003-04-11T12:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![braintree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@braintree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braintree)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/21 "2003-04-11T15:40:59Z")
“It’s inevitable that when you know history and look into the truth of any issue, you’re going to end up with a conservative viewpoint.” Funny. When I was a young pup that what they used to say about liberalism. Too bad Marisupial admits that he would have been in favor of Jim Crow and doing nothing about lynching as that was the conservative opinion at the time. ---
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/22 "2003-04-11T15:52:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > \*\*Saddam hasn’t done anything? Please allow me to quote UN resolution 1441, to begin:] I never said Saddam hasnt done ever done despicible things. My argument was that when Mr. Bush came into office Saddam was isolated and the situation was stabilized and that SINCE then he has made no major moves towards to challenge UN regilations. This crisis was transparently created by the Bush administration. I at first thought they might have some secret intelligence about WMD but none has come to light and if Saddam did have anything he would surely have used it to protect himself. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > \*\*Who are you to say that the actions of the United States will infuriate the region? Please give facts to support as such. \*\* Well as a citizen of the planet Mr. Bush is destabilizing I consider myself an interested parties. All over the middle east Muslim clerics who denounced osama bin laden and the 9/11 attacks have been calling for jihads against the United states. Including the most influnetial clerics in Egypt and Syria. ---
**Author:** ![thelark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@thelark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/23 "2003-04-11T15:53:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trion \* > \*\*I’m curious too. I’ve always had the impression that Cecil was kinda conservative. (Just an impression mind you.) \*\* I should have phrased that differently. “Liberal elite” was meant to be used as a general phrase, not necessarily referring to C.A. I do not know enough about his opinions to be able to deem that; however, it was the impression I received from the column. ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/24 "2003-04-11T15:54:47Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Cecil Adams_ > **If history judges Bush harshly–and it probably will–it won’t be for screwing up as a young smart aleck, but for getting us into this damn fool war.** Cite? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marsupial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Marsupial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marsupial)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/25 "2003-04-11T15:59:34Z")
He, he. Yeah, that’s exactly what I said. Nothing gets past you guys! 😉 (Funny, it seems to me most of the lynching back then was done primarily by Dixiecrats such as Senator Byrd (D-KKK).) At any rate, in my previous post, I was talking about the present, not the past. The only way to arrive at some of the innane conclusions I’ve seen in this thread is to simply ignore the truth. Thelark has done a great job of posting the truth as it relates to Saddam’s misdeeds. Saying that Bush “started” this war is simply naive and ignorant of the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/26 "2003-04-11T16:00:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > I should have phrased that differently. “Liberal elite” was meant to be used as a general phrase, not necessarily referring to C.A. I’m curious then, how should you have phrased it? ---
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/27 "2003-04-11T16:08:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marsupial \* > \*\* Saying that Bush “started” this war is simply naive and ignorant of the facts. \*\* Of course he started the war. Not only did he strike first with the invasion but he engineered the current crisis. This is what makes Bush’s actions so terrifying I expect the US to act to protect its interests (read oil) when they are threated as in the first gulf war. Now the situation is the US going out picking fights. When the worlds only superpower becomes a distablilizing force in geopolitics its bad news for everybody ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/28 "2003-04-11T16:11:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scotandrsn \* > \*\*Remember, the Viet Nam war seemed like a good idea to most Americans at one time, too. \*\* Please explain to me how this war is in any way like VietNam. Haj ---
**Author:** ![thelark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@thelark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/29 "2003-04-11T16:12:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*I’m curious then, how should you have phrased it? \*\* “When will the anti-war crowd finally admit that they have been proven wrong? Were it not for the liberal elite media (i.e. CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, etc.) constantly bashing the war and biasing their news coverage to reflect their editorial standpoints the truth would show much more clearly that, in fact, the vast majority of American support the war on Iraq.” Does that help clarify? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/30 "2003-04-11T16:13:23Z")
Please don’t forget that wether Cecil himself is sided one way or another, the good 'ol Chicago Reader is just about as liberal as can be. ---
**Author:** ![braintree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@braintree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braintree)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/31 "2003-04-11T16:15:40Z")
“Saying that Bush ‘started’ this war is simply naive and ignorant of the facts.” Oh? Am I wrong or didn’t Saddam allow inspectors back into his country. Am I wrong or didn’t we invade Iraq? Am I wrong or hasn’t most of the world made it clear that it was against this war? Am I wrong or was Iraq, despite all evidence to the contrary, really behind 9/11? Whether it was justified or not is one thing. But saying we didn’t start it is ridiculous. We absolutley did start it. If it wasn’t for Bush and Blair pushing, pushing and pushing and then invading there would presently be no war. The problem here is not other people’s ignorance of the facts but your denial of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/32 "2003-04-11T16:18:15Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s inevitable that when you know history and look into the truth of any issue, you’re going to end up with a conservative viewpoint. Yeah! What was wrong with segregation? And when are we gonna get that there Godless evil-lution outta the schools? ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/33 "2003-04-11T16:23:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > \*\*I should have phrased that differently. “Liberal elite” was meant to be used as a general phrase, not necessarily referring to C.A. I do not know enough about his opinions to be able to deem that; however, it was the impression I received from the column. \*\* Are you saying that you got the impression that Cecil was liberal based on one column? I just want to take this oportunity to point out that not all liberal or all conservatives have all the same views on all the issues. It is entirely possibe for someone who is generally conservative to be against this war in much the same way that it’s possible for someone to be generally liberal and for it. I’m not picking on you specifically **thelark**. But I think this is a point worth making. ---
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/34 "2003-04-11T16:23:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > \*\*“When will the anti-war crowd finally admit that they have been proven wrong? Were it not for the liberal elite media (i.e. CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, etc.) constantly bashing the war and biasing their news coverage to reflect their editorial standpoints the truth would show much more clearly that, in fact, the vast majority of American support the war on Iraq.” > \*\* You seem to be under the impression the aint-war crowd is against this war because we ahvent heard on CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times that the majority of amercains support the war (like they do in every war at the beginning). I dont know about the rest of the anti-war crowd but I oppose this war because it is going to destabilize the region and end up killing many more Americans, Iraqis, and whoever’s targeted next week by cowboy-diplomacy. I think if your making decisons of whats right and wrong regarding matters as serious as war based on an opinion poll, then you should not be the one going around shaming others. ---
**Author:** ![thelark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@thelark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/35 "2003-04-11T16:27:04Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by braintree \* \*\*“Saying that Bush ‘started’ this war is simply naive and ignorant of the facts.” Oh? Am I wrong or didn’t Saddam allow inspectors back into his country. Am I wrong or didn’t we invade Iraq? Am I wrong or hasn’t most of the world made it clear that it was against this war? Am I wrong or was Iraq, despite all evidence to the contrary, really behind 9/11? \*\* Saddam allowed inspectors back into his country but not unconditionally. He did not allow them to freely inspect sites (e.g. palaces), he did not allow them to have un-monitored interviews with scientists in neutral areas. Iraq is approximately the size of California, hiding weapons from inspectors is not hard; especially since it is believed that Saddam has mobile weapond labs. Most of the world has not made it clear that they are against the war. There is a vocal anti-war presence, but, you should remember, there is also a strong coalition that backs the war. “Most of the world” is an overstatement. Can I ask you what it really comes down to as being more important - the people or Iraq wanting to be liberated, or the French against it because of their financial dealings? If you ask me, the cheering crowds of Iraqis greeting our soldiers, tearing down remnants of the oppressive regime, praising GWB far outweighs the opinions of “most of the world”. Nobody claimed Saddam was behind 9/11. I do not know where you are pulling that from. The line of thought is that Saddam Hussein supports terrorists and terrorist activities. He has WMD and there is cause for concern that these weapons could fall into the hands of terrorists. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by braintree \* > \*\*Whether it was justified or not is one thing. But saying we didn’t start it is ridiculous. We absolutley did start it. If it wasn’t for Bush and Blair pushing, pushing and pushing and then invading there would presently be no war. > > The problem here is not other people’s ignorance of the facts but your denial of them. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![braintree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@braintree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braintree)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/36 "2003-04-11T16:30:01Z")
Two things in defense of Cecil: 1. He has regularly made fun of feminists and other grim guardians of left-wing orthodoxy which speaks well of his impartiality (see, especially, his disection of the-Superbowl-causes-rape theory). 2. Being against the war is not necessarilly a left-wing or liberal position. Case in point is the Cato Institute’s objections to the war. Below is a link from which you can download an adobe document detailing why they think it’s a stupid idea. [http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-464es.html](http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-464es.html) ---
**Author:** ![thelark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@thelark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/37 "2003-04-11T16:34:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheMemeWarrior \* > \*\*You seem to be under the impression the aint-war crowd is against this war because we ahvent heard on CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times that the majority of amercains support the war (like they do in every war at the beginning). I dont know about the rest of the anti-war crowd but I oppose this war because it is going to destabilize the region and end up killing many more Americans, Iraqis, and whoever’s targeted next week by cowboy-diplomacy. I think if your making decisons of whats right and wrong regarding matters as serious as war based on an opinion poll, then you should not be the one going around shaming others. \*\* My impression is not that the anti-war crowd is basing their opinion on such. They had their minds made up before the war began. Please explain how this will destabilize the region? By bringing a democratic government (or whatever the Iraqi people choose) to the region you do not think this will help? Why do you assume that there will be a next “target”. You are making a lot of assumptions without facts. Please support your comments. ---
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/38 "2003-04-11T16:36:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > **Saddam allowed inspectors back into his country but not unconditionally. He did not allow them to freely inspect sites (e.g. palaces), he did not allow them to have un-monitored interviews with scientists in neutral areas. Iraq is approximately the size of California, hiding weapons from inspectors is not hard; especially since it is believed that Saddam has mobile weapond labs.** The point is he let them back in and has done nothing to provoke the united states in years. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by thelark \* > \*\* > Most of the world has not made it clear that they are against the war. There is a vocal anti-war presence, but, you should remember, there is also a strong coalition that backs the war. “Most of the world” is an overstatement._\* its always difficult to guage world opinion by polling countires, If only there was a recognozed body where all these nations could meet and discuss such issues. If only such a place existed Mr. Bush could have brought up his plans there and we’d really know where the world stood on this war. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > \*\* > Can I ask you what it really comes down to as being more important - the people or Iraq wanting to be liberated, or the French against it because of their financial dealings? B] well thats a false dichotmoy if ever i heard one. maybe you could address the real arguments against the war. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thelark \* > \*\* > Nobody claimed Saddam was behind 9/11. \*\* except half the american public think’s that according to recent polls, which you earlier used as justification for the war. ---
**Author:** ![thelark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@thelark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/39 "2003-04-11T16:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheMemeWarrior \* > **The point is he let them back in and has done nothing to provoke the united states in years.** Of course he let them in! Everything is hidden, he had complete control over them and his scientists and knew that, as a result, nothing would be found! He provoked the US by not abiding to UN resolutions or the terms of the cease-fire agreement of the original Gulf War. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheMemeWarrior \* > **well thats a false dichotmoy if ever i heard one. maybe you could address the real arguments against the war.** The liberation of the Iraqi people is one of the main reasons for this war. How you could find fault or a problem with that is beyond my comprehension. As Americans, our freedoms are often taken for granted and, as we live our entire lives in freedom, we lose perspective of the suffering of others as a result of regimes such as Saddam Hussein’s. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheMemeWarrior \* > \*\*except half the american public think’s that according to recent polls, which you earlier used as justification for the war. \*\* Please provide the source for that. ---
**Author:** ![Mearl\_Dox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Mearl\_Dox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mearl_Dox)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017/40 "2003-04-11T16:56:49Z")
Wow, look at all the newbies coming out of the woodwork. Hiya, folks on both sides! I salute Cecil for proudly (and somewhat rudely) giving his view on things. If Cecil just recited facts, I’d never have enjoyed his column. I don’t always agree with the man, but I respect him. And I won’t stop respecting him because he stated his opinion. Heck, being ornery and blunt is his whole shtick! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-fool-war/168017.md?page=3)