# Damn moon landing conspiracy theorist! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560 "2009-09-18T05:53:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/41 "2009-09-20T10:22:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Well, space is very cold. _snort_ **Johnny L.A.** , Where did you gakk that list from? I spotted at least one swapped name: > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > LM-7: _Antares_. Flew on Apollo 13. > LM-8: _Aquarius_. Flew on Apollo 14. LM-7: _Aquarius_. Flew on Apollo 13. LM-8: _Antares_. Flew on Apollo 14. \*\*\* Ponder ---
**Author:** ![Shig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Shig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shig)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/42 "2009-09-20T13:58:04Z")
Well since the question I was asking with this post has been answered, and we’ve moved on to other moon topics, I have a question. What is the reason for NASA wanting to send people to the moon again? ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/43 "2009-09-20T14:28:16Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > By the end of the mission, the spacecraft has shrunk by about 350 feet. _Shrinkage!_ ~George Costanza OP, tell your friend you’ve already notified the secret police that he has discovered the ruse and that they’ll be rounding him up shortly. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/44 "2009-09-20T15:04:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Incidentally, here are the LM serial numbers: > > […] > LM-4: _Snoopy_. Flew on Apollo 10. So, if Apollo 10 had been the first manned craft to land on the moon, one of the most famous quotes of all history would be “Houston, Tranquility Base here. The _Snoopy_ has landed”? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/45 "2009-09-20T15:54:07Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > _snort_ > > **Johnny L.A.** , Where did you gakk that list from? I spotted at least one swapped name: > > LM-7: _Aquarius_. Flew on Apollo 13. > LM-8: _Antares_. Flew on Apollo 14. You are correct. I inadvertently swapped them when I typed it up. :smack: > [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > _Shrinkage!_ ~George Costanza Mine was adapted from _Coupling_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/46 "2009-09-21T00:03:52Z")
> [@Shig](#): > > Well since the question I was asking with this post has been answered, and we’ve moved on to other moon topics, I have a question. What is the reason for NASA wanting to send people to the moon again? What do you mean? NASA is chartered, in part, with the responsibility of learning about heavenly bodies of all stripe. There’s still a lot we don’t know about the moon – we’ve never been to the dark side (sic), for instance, although crews from several Apollo missions overflew it. There’s still a lot to learn about the moon’s composition – we gathered only a small sampling of rocks from a half-dozen sites. Moreover, space exploration has always (properly, in my view) been justified with less concrete ideas about man’s natural drive to explore and understand. And the space program has always been in large part about national prestige and an excuse to do weapons research (rocketry, guidance, etc.). Those reasons remain, even if they’re not as pressing as they once may have been. The Bush Administration established the program to return to the moon in part, it said, as it can serve as a launch pad for Mars and beyond. From what I understand, that’s not an efficient way to run things. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t still worthwhile science to do on the moon, as well as lots of other places too of course. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Shig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Shig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shig)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/47 "2009-09-21T02:57:43Z")
Thank you Cliffy. That’s the kind of answer I was hoping for. I’m sure I could have looked into it myself, but since there seem to be some bonafide “moon people” here, I figured I’d ask here. So for anyone following this thread, I presented all the facts on the fuel. My buddy’s new defenses are that there’s no way that just a suit would keep you safe freom the extreme temperatures on the moon. We looked the suits up, but he doesn’t seem satisfied haha. I’m trying to find info on the types of temperatures that there are for shuttle astronauts that do space walks, but haven’t come across any good answers. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/48 "2009-09-21T04:24:06Z")
[How space suites work](http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-suit.htm). Temperature is mentioned on the second page: > [@](#): > > **Temperature** > To cope with the extremes of temperature, most space suits are heavily insulated with layers of fabric (Neoprene, Gore-Tex, Dacron) and covered with reflective outer layers (Mylar or white fabric) to reflect sunlight. The astronaut produces heat from his/her body, especially when doing strenuous activities. If this heat is not removed, the sweat produced by the astronaut will fog up the helmet and cause the astronaut to become severely dehydrated; astronaut Eugene Cernan lost several pounds during his spacewalk on Gemini 9. To remove this excess heat, space suits have used either fans/heat exchangers to blow cool air, as in the Mercury and Gemini programs, or water-cooled garments, which have been used from the Apollo program to the present. A couple of pages later it goes into the Apollo suit and lists, among other things: [quote] [ul][li]Five layers of aluminized Mylar interwoven with four layers of Dacron for heat protection[/li][li]Two layers of Kapton for additional heat protection[/ul][/li][/quote] From [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_suit#Spacesuit_requirements): > [@](#): > > [ul][li]Temperature regulation. Unlike on Earth, where heat can be transferred by convection to the atmosphere, in space heat can be lost only by thermal radiation or by conduction to objects in physical contact with the space suit. Since the temperature on the outside of the suit varies greatly between sunlight and shadow, the suit is heavily insulated, and the temperature inside the suit is regulated by a Liquid Cooling Garment in contact with the astronaut’s skin, as well as air temperature maintained by the Primary Life Support System.[/ul][/li] > \ > > As part of astronautical hygiene control (i.e., protecting astronauts from extremes of temperature, radiation, etc.), a spacesuit is essential for extravehicular activity. Within its 18,000 or so parts, it contains everything an astronaut needs to stay alive, including oxygen, water, temperature control, and carbon dioxide removal… The Apollo/Skylab A7L suit included eleven layers in all: an inner liner, a liquid cooling and ventilation garment, a pressure bladder, a restraint layer, another liner, and a thermal micrometeoroid garment consisting of five aluminized insulation layers and an external layer of white Ortho-Fabric. This spacesuit is capable of protecting the astronaut from temperatures ranging from -156 °C to +121 °C (Note that temperatures are ºC, not ºF.) ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/49 "2009-09-21T06:08:10Z")
Hollywood sucks. They havn’t had an original idea in many years and could never have been in on the NASA program. [After 40 years' reflection, laser moon mirror project is axed | Space | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/21/mcdonald-observatory-space-laser-funding) ,Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/50 "2009-09-21T06:21:33Z")
Anyway back to the OP. Everyone knows the damn thing was full of Mentos and diet Coke. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/51 "2009-09-21T06:30:39Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > So, if Apollo 10 had been the first manned craft to land on the moon, one of the most famous quotes of all history would be “Houston, Tranquility Base here. The _Snoopy_ has landed”? It was known well in advance that Apollo 10 would not be a landing mission. I’m sure the crew would have picked a more pretentious name otherwise. Since it was not, they were free to be more whimsical. (IIRC, I’m pretty sure it was the crews who actually picked the individual spacecraft names). The command module of Apollo 10 was called _Charlie Brown_. As an aside, I remember hearing a tale, which my google-fu was unable to confirm, about how the Apollo 10 crew were emphatically told not to go off-mission and attempt to land ahead of Apollo 11. To make sure they didn’t try it anyway, their LM fuel was restricted so they didn’t have enough to actually land and/or take off again. \*\*\* Ponder ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/52 "2009-09-21T06:56:43Z")
I found this… [A Space Junkie's Space Junk: Apollo 10 to the Moon!!](http://jonathan-spacejunk.blogspot.com/2009/05/apollo-10-to-moon.html) See paragragh 3. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/53 "2009-09-21T12:59:27Z")
> [@Shig](#): > > Thank you Cliffy. That’s the kind of answer I was hoping for. I’m sure I could have looked into it myself, but since there seem to be some bonafide “moon people” here, I figured I’d ask here. So for anyone following this thread, I presented all the facts on the fuel. My buddy’s new defenses are that there’s no way that just a suit would keep you safe freom the extreme temperatures on the moon. We looked the suits up, but he doesn’t seem satisfied haha. I’m trying to find info on the types of temperatures that there are for shuttle astronauts that do space walks, but haven’t come across any good answers. OK, this is the point where you call him on his BS. Anyone can, for whatever reason, find it hard to believe one particular point about something as incredible as landing a man on the moon. But when that point is explained to them, and they then decide there’s another point they don’t believe, then they don’t want to understand. Talking about technical details of suits is a complete waste of time, until you get an answer as to why he wants to believe in the conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/54 "2009-09-21T13:23:44Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > OK, this is the point where you call him on his BS. Anyone can, for whatever reason, find it hard to **believe** one particular point about something as incredible as landing a man on the moon. But when that point is explained to them, and they then decide there’s another point they don’t believe, then they don’t want to understand. > > Talking about technical details of suits is a complete waste of time, until you get an answer as to why he wants to **believe** in the conspiracy. Bingo. And the very fact they are coming from it from a “I don’t **believe** ” mindset rather than a “I can’t\*\* understand \*\*how” mindset is damning. As you said, once one major point has been explained and they immediately jump to the next one with a mindset of disbelief rather than intelligent inquiry its time to move on. Show him the websites that explain all this stuff in gory detail and be done with it. Hell, most things about this world I don’t understand. To not believe its true because I don’t understand it would be assinine. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/55 "2009-09-21T13:49:49Z")
Interesting thread. As a space mad teenager in the late 60s, I just expect “everyone” to understand how the Apollo missions worked, from the size of Saturn V to the liquid cooled undersuit 😃 One brilliant source of information, not only on what the kit was but how it was developed, is the [_NASA Apollo 11 Owners’ Workshop Manual: 1969 (including Saturn V, CM-107, SM-107, LM-5)_](http://www.amazon.com/NASA-Apollo-Owners-Workshop-Manual/dp/1844256839/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253540390&sr=1-1) ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/56 "2009-09-21T14:29:02Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > One brilliant source of information, not only on what the kit was but how it was developed, is the [_NASA Apollo 11 Owners’ Workshop Manual: 1969 (including Saturn V, CM-107, SM-107, LM-5)_](http://www.amazon.com/NASA-Apollo-Owners-Workshop-Manual/dp/1844256839/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253540390&sr=1-1) The Chiltons manual is better but they are hard to find these days 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/57 "2009-09-21T15:10:50Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > I found this… [A Space Junkie's Space Junk: Apollo 10 to the Moon!!](http://jonathan-spacejunk.blogspot.com/2009/05/apollo-10-to-moon.html) See paragragh 3. Thanks, **Claude Remains**. That confirmed my memory of the story, but also claimed it wasn’t true. 🙂 Interesting. One thing that puzzled me, from the linked blog post: > [@](#): > > And the actual reason that the LM didn’t have enough fuel to land was because this LM was overweight and couldn’t have possibly carried enough fuel to support a landing. This seemed odd to me. If Apollo 10 was intended to be a full-on dress rehearsal for the full landing mission, why would they deliberately change an important parameter like the LM mass? So now armed with a new keyword I didn’t know before (“overweight”), I googled and found this: [Apollo 10: NASA’s controversial dress rehearsal](http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/05/nasas-controversial-dress-rehe.html) > [@](#): > > It’s true that Apollo 10’s lander was overweight. Late in the craft’s development, it became clear that its ballooning weight was endangering the whole mission. So a severe weight-reduction program was started, with every part of the lander examined to see whether even a few grams could be shaved off it. This wasn’t easy, but it ultimately worked. > > However, early prototype LMs were already under construction and if completed would be heavier than the final standard. In the end, Nasa had to accept that: the lander was already badly behind schedule, and some were urgently needed for testing. So they tested the overweight version anyway, trusting that the changes they’d made to reduce the mass of the next lander in line would work out. I’m glad they were right. 🙂 To get back onto the OP’s topic: This kind of detail is something the moon hoax adherents love. They can point to this and claim that NASA never actually solved the LM mass problem, so of course they had to fake the landing. 🙂 \*\*\* Ponder ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/58 "2009-09-21T15:57:55Z")
I’m pretty sure Gene Kranz (who would be in a position to know) wrote in [_Failure Is Not an Option_](http://www.amazon.com/Failure-Not-Option-Mission-Control/dp/0743200799) that the LM for Apollo 10 did not carry enough fuel for a landing. I don’t remember if he said this was specifically to prevent them from landing on the Moon, but he did mention that reason. I’ll look it up later and provide a quote. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/59 "2009-09-22T00:40:14Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > To make sure they didn’t try it anyway, their LM fuel was restricted so they didn’t have enough to actually land and/or take off again. Gene Cernan, LMP on Apollo 10 (who later walked on the moon on Apollo 17), told that story in the recent-ish docuseries When We Left Earth. > [@Quercus](#): > > But when that point is explained to them, and they then decide there’s another point they don’t believe, then they don’t want to understand. Yep. The evidence suggests he doesn’t want to know the truth; he wants people to think he’s cool because he’s so cynical and knowing. That said, **Shig** , I’m still happy to address other questions you have about the program. (One question – does he think the Shuttle and ISS are all a hoax, too? Because they use similar suits – more advanced, but the engineering challenges are much the same in low Earth orbit as on the moon.) > [@MarcusF](#): > > Interesting thread. As a space mad teenager in the late 60s, I just expect “everyone” to understand how the Apollo missions worked, from the size of Saturn V to the liquid cooled undersuit 😃 It’s surprisingly tough to find a description of the Apollo mission profile online, at least pitched to a lay audience. Really, the best stuff I’ve found is the press materials NASA published at the time, some of which are available. Things are either written for the complete space novice, or they assume a certain base level of understanding that was probably common for Americans who lived through the late '60’s, but which younger folks just never picked up. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Shig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Shig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shig)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560/60 "2009-09-26T12:45:21Z")
Thanks Cliffy. The answer to your questin is no. Shuttles and the ISS are real haha. He has no problem believing that we could get up 100-200 miles like shuttles and the ISS, but “there is no way there could have been enough fuel on there to get them almost 239,000 miles away and back again.” It’s almost as if he’s picturing an engine using gasoline. I’ve given up. Now I’ve become fascinated by these people claiming that the Chinese faked their moon walk. I am fascinated by conspiracy theories. Not because I believe them, I really don’t know what it is about them. One of my favorite books is “Why People Believe Weird Things” by Michael Shermer.It’s all about skepticism when it comes to pseudoscientific beliefs, conspiracy theories, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist/510560.md?page=4)