# Damn Newbies over @ GD **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 10, 2000, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102 "2000-05-10T11:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/1 "2000-05-10T11:23:03Z")
OK, I’ll be the first to admit that I was a sorta “newbie” here not so long ago. But, even if I was sorta new HERE, I had plenty of Eps. 😃 But over in GD, we’re starting to get some new KIDS, who have no idea how to debate. Their idea of a GD is to state: “I heard ‘X’ so ‘Y’ must be true”, without verifing/citing “X”. Even when you call them on it, all them come up with is “well, I read it somewhere so it must be true”, or “you prove ME wrong” :mad: Look Kids, unless you want to be torn to shreds & fed to the Wolves, or be considered a “troll”; cite a few facts. I’m not even asking you to, god forbid :rolleyes: , crack an actual BOOK… You know how to use a search engine, that is how you found US, right? Then USE IT! You are here because you want respect, acknowledgement and to be treated like adults, right? Then EARN our respect. Or stay in MPSIMS 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boogarrheal\_Catastrophe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Boogarrheal\_Catastrophe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogarrheal_Catastrophe)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/2 "2000-05-10T11:28:08Z")
> [@](#): > > You are here because you want respect, acknowledgement and to be treated like adults, right? You’re joking, right? I can’t imagine anyone seriously expecting these things here. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/3 "2000-05-10T16:02:06Z")
People not only can expect it, they sometimes actually get it. It’s usually not gained, however, by calling long-time respected posters trolls. Just a thought. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/4 "2000-05-10T16:38:44Z")
Now, now, **Daniel,** I thought we weren’t going to be judgemental any more about newbies OR trolls. 😃 But seriously, I know exactly what you mean, and the only thing to do is just try to set them straight, or else ignore it. Eventually either one of two things will happen: either they’ll get tired of being yelled at and will go back to MPSIMS, or else they’ll figure it out and become decent debaters. Not everybody comes to the SDMB with actual experience in having a logical debate, where you’re required to back things up with cites, and where you’re expected to proceed rationally from Point A to Point B, without cluttering up the issue with Point S, which we haven’t gotten to yet, or Point 29, which isn’t in this alphabet, or Point My-friend-at-work-says, which isn’t even on the same planet. Sermonette: > [@](#): > > Prov 10:8 The wise in heart accept commands, but a chattering fool comes to ruin. > > Prov 12:15 The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice. > > Prov 12:16 A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. > > Prov 15:2 The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly. > > Prov 17:12 Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than a fool in his folly. > > Prov 17:21 To have a fool for a son brings grief; there is no joy for the father of a fool. > > Prov 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. > > Prov 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions. > > Prov 20:3 It is to a man’s honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel. > > Prov 23:9 Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words. > > Prov 24:7 Wisdom is too high for a fool; in the assembly at the gate he has nothing to say. > > Prov 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. > > Prov 26:7 Like a lame man’s legs that hang limp is a proverb in the mouth of a fool. > > Prov 27:3 Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both. > > Prov 27:22 Though you grind a fool in a mortar, grinding him like grain with a pestle, you will not remove his folly from him. > > Prov 29:9 If a wise man goes to court with a fool, the fool rages and scoffs, and there is no peace. > > Prov 29:11 A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control. And my personal favorite: > [@](#): > > Prov 26:11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. Reading the book of Proverbs, you start to get the feeling that they must have had message boards back in Bible times. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Soupy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Soupy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soupy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/5 "2000-05-10T17:07:29Z")
Now you’re \*importing \* trolls to trash? Don’t you have any other interests? Give it a _rest._ ---
**Author:** ![PVonAtark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a3d4f5/32.png) [@PVonAtark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PVonAtark)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/6 "2000-05-10T18:09:34Z")
Alright Daniel, I admit that I’m new here. I further admit that I haven’t been using proper debating form with cites and such on the GD forum. For the annoyance I may have caused you I apologize. However, I am not uniformed about the subjects that I post to. If you want factual data from me just ask and I will do my best to back up what I have said. In the meantime, aside from the established trolls (Pashley, Califboomer etc.) Who offends you? Why have you not cofronted them in the threds to which hey post? Or have I missed those threads? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/7 "2000-05-10T18:27:44Z")
> [@](#): > > If you want factual data from me just ask and I will do my best to back up what I have said. On this board, assume everyone wants it and provide it from the get-go. Otherwise, well, put on those flame-retardant undies, pal. > [@](#): > > In the meantime, aside from the established trolls (Pashley, Califboomer etc.)… Awfully well-informed for a self-proclaimed newbie… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![ignatiusjreilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@ignatiusjreilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatiusjreilly)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/8 "2000-05-10T20:27:09Z")
God, I agree with you 100%, Daniel. In the “Fat vs Thin” debate, we had a spirited little discussion that was dying out when some newbie “Nacho4Sara” showed up and started regurgitating just about everything that had already been said. When I called her on it and asked her to kindly **read the entire thread first** and then **add** something if she’s going to come in at the end, I got this response (my quote is first): > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > “Look Nacho, if you’re going to jump in and revive a debate when it’s almost done and died out, then you have a responsibility to go back and read all of the posts and synthesize all of the arguments before you start spouting off.” > > I will jump in a revive anything I please. It IS a public message board, and I can recall no rules about not joining in posts after they are a certain length. As far as I can see, nothing was decided. And I read the whole thing. I chose not to quote other posts because I wanted to make my own point. And spouting off is exactly what I do and will continue to do as long as people make ridiculous points and outlandish comments about fat people eating ho-hos. Then I of course asked her not to **take everything so damn personally,** so I got this response: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > “Finally, these are the Great Debat(e)s after all. If you cannot take criticism of your posts without interpretting it as a personal attack, then I would recommend that you either make better arguments or refrain from posting.” > > Is this a warning? Because at no point did I feel anything was a personal attack toward me. I felt as though you were being rude and offensive toward anyone who has ever had a weight problem. If you are warning me because I am a newbie, rest assured, your trivial comments have no effect on me. I will continue to post as I please and I do not care if people criticize me. Whatever. And as for making better arguements, perhaps you should take your own advice. > > Finally, I know they are Great Debates. I have been reading them without posting for months. But thank you for insulting my intelligence anyway, as it seems to be a sign of your own lacking in that department. I have now been accused of being rude for describing fat people and for having my own personal standards of intimate attraction that may or may not include fat people. Most recently I was just accused of being narrowminded because I want to debate the OP and not just accept the prevailing wisdom among those folks on the other side as established fact. What’s sad is that she swears up and down that she’s read the entire thread, but she keeps missing my references and attributing things to me that aren’t mine (like the hoho comment) and calling me an asshole for asking her to get more information before she shoots off her mouth! :mad: We’re now moving away from any kind of debate at all on the OP or anything related to it - now it’s more of a debate about the quality of her debating skills and why I’m insecure about myself for pointing them out. :mad: If this goes on much longer I’m going to start a new flame myself… fucking newbies - I think that the 50 post rule is beginning to look mighty tasty. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/9 "2000-05-10T22:27:10Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that the 50 post rule is beginning to look mighty tasty. I agree. From now on, no-one is allowed to post until they have at least 50 posts. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/10 "2000-05-10T22:48:43Z")
Er, **Johnny** , you don’t think you might have been just a tad rude? ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/11 "2000-05-10T22:50:54Z")
Oy vey! :rolleyes: Educate, don’t insult. Remember, we’re all here because we worship Cecil who is **fighting ignorance** not merely insulting the ignorant. Well, ok, he insults them, but then he goes on to answer their questions too. If any new poster wishes to ask my advice and get a respectful answer, you may e-mail me at [lhamelin@iname.com](mailto:lhamelin@iname.com) in confidence and I will do my best to inform or merely to encourage, as needed. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2000, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/12 "2000-05-10T22:51:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > OK, I’ll be the first to admit that I was a sorta “newbie” here not so long ago. But, even if I was sorta new HERE, I had plenty of Eps. 😃 But over in GD, we’re starting to get some new KIDS, who have no idea how to debate. Their idea of a GD is to state: “I heard ‘X’ so ‘Y’ must be true”, without verifing/citing “X”. Even when you call them on it, all them come up with is “well, I read it somewhere so it must be true”, or “you prove ME wrong” :mad: > > Look Kids, unless you want to be torn to shreds & fed to the Wolves, or be considered a “troll”; cite a few facts. I’m not even asking you to, god forbid :rolleyes: , crack an actual BOOK… You know how to use a search engine, that is how you found US, right? Then USE IT! > > You are here because you want respect, acknowledgement and to be treated like adults, right? Then EARN our respect. Or stay in MPSIMS 😃 > \*\* Hey, Danny? I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re not talking about **me** here. 🙂 Speaking of which, when in the flaming HELL are you gonna address my ridiculously well-supported WAG about the Framers’ belief in private gun ownership as a natural right which didn’t need to be enumerated? After all, I’ve cited more than a few facts… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ignatiusjreilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@ignatiusjreilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatiusjreilly)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/13 "2000-05-11T00:13:21Z")
Not really. I’m being a bit rude right now because I’m in the pit, but my remarks directed at her weren’t that rude. If you’re referring to my original comments in the thread itself (her assertion that simply describing a fat person as fat is rude to the fat person), then no, I still don’t think I was rude. Since I made that post she’s made a few more asinine comments and I have subsequently invited her to come into the pit. Let’s see what happens… ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/14 "2000-05-11T00:14:33Z")
No, GAD, I’m not talking about you. You do need things pounded in a bit 😃 , but you DO know how to debate, cite sources, and concede points. And I thought I did answer your point, but I just posted again, and if that isn’t clear, I’ll try again. Espix; “calling long time respected posters trolls”? Are you talking to me? I do not understand your point. 😕 SINGLEDAD: I AM trying to educate, not insult. I could flame these guys so bad the price of aloe gel would jump. But I hope they are saveable. So instead of trashing, I’m trying to get them to listen. PV: Yes, you are one of those I was trying to reach, but you’re the best of a bad lot, I think you have promise. I do not bother to flame Trolls, as they are beneath my notice. Listing Trolls only gets them what they want. This is not an anti-troll flame, it is an “incapable of debating with the big boys” Flame. NTM: thanks, great verses. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/15 "2000-05-11T02:08:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I think that the 50 post rule is beginning to look mighty tasty. > > I agree. From now on, no-one is allowed to post until they have at least 50 posts. > \*\* Oh, that’s going in the sig. –John ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/16 "2000-05-11T02:54:50Z")
Why do you people have to be so damn condescending to new posters? What, were all the anti-newbie screeds sinking too low and you had to add your own? If you’ve got a problem with people who post unsupported arguments, tell them. Don’t just go and flame “newbies” as a group. Now, let’s everyone stop being assholes to the new guys and try to assimilate them, like we were all assimilated. -waterj2 of Borg ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/17 "2000-05-11T02:55:44Z")
Flaming new posters is like shooting fish in a barrel. Tempting but unsportsmanlike. ---
**Author:** ![Loki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@Loki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loki)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/18 "2000-05-11T04:13:05Z")
Danielinthewolvesden: You talking about me here? I’m probably the newest newbie ever to newbie in the GD (my 2nd post was a new thread, the one on whether having children should be a right), and if I’ve posted a load of old shit, sorry about that. I’ll take constructive criticism though, where am I going wrong? ---
**Author:** ![speakeasy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@speakeasy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/speakeasy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/19 "2000-05-11T06:03:12Z")
[Hijack] Great hopping electrons! I just read in this annual report that Gordon Moore owns 177 MILLION FUCKING SHARES of Intel. Um, I think that beats my 3 of a kind. I just had to say that. [/Hijack] So kids, seems to me we are lining out some rules that I don’t see posted anywhere. Last I heard, I can state an opinion without citing somebody’s PhD thesis. Of course, the horse exhaust that johnnyharvard ran into with Nacho4Sara is enough to give you a nosebleed. Some of that might wear off after a little orientation. Some of it might just be a person who has never been trained to think logically. If worse gets to worse, that’s what twit filters are all about, right? I’ve learned a few things since I started posting here. But there still seem to be a few things where I differ with some folks. For instance, if I’m wrapped up in a debate, I don’t feel the need to respond to each and every bullet point item that gets posted. It might be off subject, a repeat item, or just too stupid to waste pixels on. The fact is I have a limited amount of bottom time here. I need to get in, say what I got to say, and let the reader draw his/her own conclusions. If somebody doesn’t like that, life’s a bitch and then you marry one. So if you state an opinion, be clear that it’s an opinion not a fact. If you’re going to state a fact, be ready to back it up. Be ready to support your position with facts and/or a consistent philosophy. When you get your ass kicked and you know you are wrong, fess up. Put a little salt & pepper on those words and chow down. It’ll make you a better poster. Know or learn the rules of deductive and inductive logical reasoning. Just because you really really think so doesn’t make it so. Your emotional state has no effect on my opinion. Try to be witty and original with your flames. The old “I’m gonna BBQ your spleen” thing has been done once or twice before. Study the masters. Anybody care to add to the list? Why don’t we spell it out. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102/20 "2000-05-11T06:15:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by waterj2 of Borg > \*\* > Now, let’s everyone stop being assholes to the new guys and try to assimilate them, like we were all assimilated. > \*\* Perhaps being assholes is part of the assimilation process. IIRC this could be, or I should say might be… Wait, I should admit up front that I don’t have a cite, but I know I read about something like this… No, someone told me about it at the library, or was it the Discovery People Channel? Anyways I believe it so it must be true that… OK, I confess; This is a WAG. BUT… Could it be considered hazing? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-newbies-over-gd/19102.md?page=2)