# Damn Pete Rose and MLB for all time **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618 "2003-08-12T11:40:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/1 "2003-08-12T11:40:19Z")
From the Baseball Prospectus: > [@](#): > > Pete Rose and Major League Baseball have reached an agreement that would allow him to return to baseball in 2004, and includes no admission of wrongdoing by Rose, Baseball Prospectus has learned. According to several sources, Rose signed the agreement after a series of pre-season meetings between Rose, Hall of Fame member Mike Schmidt, and at different times, high-level representatives of Major League Baseball, including Bob DuPuy, Major League Baseball’s Chief Operating Officer, and Allan H. “Bud” Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball. > > The agreement includes removal of Rose from baseball’s permanently ineligible list. This would allow Rose to appear on ballots for baseball’s Hall of Fame, which bars such banned players from consideration. The agreement allows Rose to be employed by a team in the 2004 season, as long as that position does not involve the day to day operations. That employment restriction would be removed after a year, allowing Rose to return to managing a team as early as the 2005 season if a position is offered to him. God **dammit**! If there’s one thing baseball should do is stick to its guns on this! Rose _endangered the integrity of the game_ with his self-centered behavior. He doesn’t actually give a damn about anything except himself…his protects aside. The rule Rose broke is posted in every damn clubhouse in baseball all the way down to the lowest rungs of the minor leagues. **Betting on baseball will get you removed from the game forever**. But apparently forever doesn’t mean quite as much as it once did. I always knew Bud Selig (MLB Commissioner) was a weasel-mouthed softhead but this is beyond the pale? I hope people continually graffiti ‘LIAR’ on his Hall of Fame plaque. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/2 "2003-08-12T12:15:21Z")
Any chance this travesty is being misreported? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/3 "2003-08-12T12:36:46Z")
To paraphrase Permanent, I don’t think that word means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/4 "2003-08-12T12:45:07Z")
I’m an Aussie, and baseball isn’t even a major sport down here due to cricket having got it’s foot in the doot first, but even I know the story about Pete Rose and his shitty shenanigans. It would be a sad day for the game if that guy gets forgiven I rather think. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/5 "2003-08-12T12:45:14Z")
> [@](#): > > if a position is offered to him. Don’t think it will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/6 "2003-08-12T13:03:10Z")
$10 says it does **spooje**. I betcha by 2005 he’s managing the Reds again. And in 2004 he begins doing a whole bunch of publicity spots for them. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/7 "2003-08-12T13:08:59Z")
This fucking makes me so angry. God fucking dammit. I hate you Bud Selig. Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/8 "2003-08-12T13:09:18Z")
My understanding is this: Pete Rose at first admitted he bet on baseball, then turned around and denied it. Is that right? What proof is there that he bet on baseball or bet on or against his own team besides this recanted admission? And please, don’t give me any of this “integrity of the game” stuff. It’s all kinds of farked up that drug abusers and wife beaters and racists get a free pass but gamblers are scorned. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/9 "2003-08-12T13:13:23Z")
Apparently, there’s a document he signed that stated he had done just that, **Elwood**. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/10 "2003-08-12T13:23:11Z")
Fuck MLB, they aren’t getting one thin dime from me ever again. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/11 "2003-08-12T13:29:42Z")
GODDAMMIT! Bud Selig, you are the juiciest pimple on the backside of a neo-Nazi crack whore. Fine. Let him manage the Reds. I don’t really like the Reds anyway, and he’s the WORST FUCKING MANAGER I’ve ever seen, even when he’s not throwing games. Ow. I think my head just split. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/12 "2003-08-12T13:30:37Z")
In the face of this evidence: [http://www.dowdreport.com](http://www.dowdreport.com) Rose agreed to a lifetime ban for ‘improprieties’ provided he didn’t admit to gambling and the commisisoner at the time (Bart Giamatti) agreed to the deal if Rose promised to never challenge the ruling. Rose broke the agreement about 20 minutes into it and Giamatti declared that he HAD bet on baseball. Shortest truce in history. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/13 "2003-08-12T13:33:17Z")
And here’s a link to the Baseball Prospectus article: [http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2194](http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2194) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/14 "2003-08-12T13:38:39Z")
Sorry to come back to this, but I’m still furious. Goddam you, **Chance** , you’ve ruined my fucking day. And **you** Bud Selig! I hate you! I hate you! Fuuuuuuuuuck! Fuck fuck fuck! So. Fucking. Angry. Why must Bud Selig do everything in his power to make me not want to watch MLB? Why? God fucking damn it. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/15 "2003-08-12T13:43:46Z")
Drat, I knew he’d admitted to something. He shouldn’t be readmitted to baseball. He broke what is perhaps the most unbreakable rule in all of baseball. Interestingly enough, had he been a wife beater or child molester, he probably wouldn’t have been banned. Well, maybe, but there wouldn’t be a hue and cry over it. The difference is that what he did had a direct effect on the games in which he participated, whereas wife beating or child molesting - or even drug taking, to an extent - would not. But perhaps there’s some sunlight here, anyway. Selig isn’t going to be there forever. If he can overturn a ban, then the next commissioner can overturn the overturning. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/16 "2003-08-12T13:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Don’t think it will happen. \*\* Oh, it’ll happen. Why wouldn’t it? The people who want Rose back say that betting on his team is no big deal, or they argue that “Rose didn’t be on baseball!” Why wouldn’t people like that hire him? The Reds will. And he’ll manage like shit (again), and the Reds will lose (again) and who knows? He might even write his name into the lineup some more so that he can increase his lead as the biggest outmaker in the history of the game. Bah. I thought the worst thing Bud Selig would ever do was 1994. Then I thought it was the bullshit about contraction. Now, I know how naive I really am. I never thought anyone would willingly reinstate Rose until he was at or near death. Beelzebud strikes again. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/17 "2003-08-12T13:46:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElwoodCuse \* > And please, don’t give me any of this “integrity of the game” stuff. It’s all kinds of farked up that drug abusers and wife beaters and racists get a free pass but gamblers are scorned. You have no idea what the phrase “integrity of the game” means. Wife beaters playing baseball do not threaten the integrity of the game. Racists playing baseball do not affect the integrity of the game. There may well be good reasons to ban or otherwise discipline such players. But that’s not relevant to this discussion. The integrity of the game is threatened when a player or manager is in a position in which their own personal interests are adverse to the team’s interest in success on the field. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/18 "2003-08-12T13:50:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*But perhaps there’s some sunlight here, anyway. Selig isn’t going to be there forever. If he can overturn a ban, then the next commissioner can overturn the overturning. \*\* Nope. That won’t happen. It might even be true that that _can’t_ happen. Unless, of course, they get more evidence when (not if, when) he bets on the Reds some more. Julie ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/19 "2003-08-12T13:55:51Z")
What can’t happen? That the next commissioner will overturn it? A commissioner can overturn anything; he or she needs no evidence to do so. They rule with impunity. Look at the reaction of the various owners to this news - if you see more than a few express reservations (assuming Rose is to be reinstated), then you can be certain that when the new commissioner comes in - handpicked by the owners - he’ll at least lend an ear toward resuming the ban. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618/20 "2003-08-12T14:12:05Z")
No he can’t. At least for the hall of fame. MLB can say who’s on the restricted list. But the Hall of Fame is independent of MLB. Once he’s in he’s in. And overturning this would be astonishingly difficult once he’s in place. I think this is all coming from Carl Lindner, owner of the Reds. He lusts after the marketing potential inherent in having Rose associated with the team again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-pete-rose-and-mlb-for-all-time/194618.md?page=2)