# damn the teacher who decided "me" was a dirty word **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 20, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811 "2011-12-20T03:55:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/1 "2011-12-20T03:55:44Z")
yes, yet another grammar-pet-peeve thread from someone with no real problems, apparently… On the drive home tonight I heard one reporter say “The mayor asked (Mr. Smith and) myself to assist with the project” and more than one host use some variation on “…went with (Mary and) I to the event.” Nobody else, other than me, will ever do anything with, or to, myself. Nobody will ever go with I to an event. I blame a crappy 3rd grade teacher somewhere way back when, but when? It was well before Ms. Crabapple, me am certain of that. Was it myself’s generation? The one before? Who started this nonsense and how do we stop it? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/2 "2011-12-20T04:08:41Z")
I don’t know whose (“who’s”) fault it is, but it comes from learning only half the lesson. Kids were constantly corrected for their naive grammar, but failed to get full point of object-subject agreement. Kid says, “Me and Tom went fishing.” Teacher says, “That’s wrong! ‘Tom and I went fishing.’” Kid concludes: Uh oh! I shouldn’t say “me,” ever! So, now, you have a nation that says, “Thank you for the gifts you gave to my wife and I. They were lovely.” They got knee-jerked into superfluous avoidance. (I miss the word “whom,” too.) ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/3 "2011-12-20T04:11:44Z")
Language is alive, dusty books do not determine the prerogative of living things. However, your Piting is pathetic I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/4 "2011-12-20T04:26:31Z")
[Pssh. Lemme tell ya something, Webster. Grammar am for people who can’t think for myself. Understanded me?](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/snowboarderbo/GetFuzzygrammaram.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/5 "2011-12-20T04:30:18Z")
Had an undergrad who worked in a neighboring lab. Would start his sentences with “me 'n…”, like “me 'n Tom went out” or “me 'n Jon did this prep” etc. We’d always reply “Who’s this Mean Tom guy?” or “Jon’s not mean!” Took about a month, but we broke his habit. Which was a shame of course. Razzing him was too much fun. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/6 "2011-12-20T04:54:59Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Language is alive, dusty books do not determine the prerogative of living things. Yeah, but what we’re talking about here is known by descriptivists as [hypercorrection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection), which in fact is a misguided attempt to apply the “dusty books” that becomes pompous and silly: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Linguistic hypercorrection occurs when a real or imagined grammatical rule is applied in an inappropriate context, so that an attempt to be “correct” leads to an incorrect result…A speaker or writer who produces a hypercorrection generally believes that the form is correct through misunderstanding of these rules, often combined with a desire to seem formal or educated. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/7 "2011-12-20T05:45:37Z")
I can get on board with the rant. The incorrect “I” (“She came with John and I”) is bad enough, but the whole “myself” thing drives me crazy. It’s one of those things that people do because they think it’s actually more formal and correct, but they end up sounding completely ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/8 "2011-12-20T05:58:56Z")
I don’t want to get into yet another prescriptivist vs. descriptivist linguistics debate, but I have to point this out. > [@tenacious\_j](#): > > Nobody else, other than me, will ever do anything with, or to, myself. (various emphases mine) Okay, if you’re going to be pedantic, at least get the subject of your complaint right while you’re complaining. You’re complaining about people not following prescriptive grammar rules with regard to the two first person singular cases. In the quoted passage, the text in red is a compound subject. Pronouns in subjects, with limited exceptions that don’t apply here, should be in the subjective case. The underlined and enlarged word is a pronoun in the objective case. You wouldn’t say “Me will never do anything with myself.” You would instead say “I will never do anything with myself.” Thus, if you want to be prescriptive, the quoted passage should read: > [@](#): > > Nobody else, other than I, will ever do anything with, or to, myself. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/9 "2011-12-20T06:04:38Z")
It is me. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/10 "2011-12-20T07:33:55Z")
> [@Randy\_Seltzer](#): > > Okay, if you’re going to be pedantic, at least get the subject of your complaint right while you’re complaining. You’re complaining about people not following prescriptive grammar rules with regard to the two first person singular cases. > > In the quoted passage, the text in red is a compound subject. Pronouns in subjects, with limited exceptions that don’t apply here, should be in the subjective case. The underlined and enlarged word is a pronoun in the objective case. In this context, I believe “other than me” is an adjectival prepositional phrase modifying the subject, and “other than” is a compound preposition semantically equivalent to “besides”. That makes the pronoun the object of the prepositional phrase, so “me” is correct. The “else” is redundant, I think, and that makes the construction a bit more awkward than it has to be, but I don’t think it’s technically incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/11 "2011-12-20T07:50:38Z")
You know, **Balance** , I think you might be right. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/12 "2011-12-20T11:54:01Z")
With you its me, me, me isn’t it ? Its all about me. Well let me tell you that thers no me in, for example archaeology, or trumpet. So just try to remember that in the future . O.K.? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/13 "2011-12-20T12:29:33Z")
Apparently I can’t post a reply that is entirely within quote tags. [QUOTE=Georgi Festrunk] I blame myself. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/14 "2011-12-20T13:07:02Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > In this context, I believe “other than me” is an adjectival prepositional phrase modifying the subject, and “other than” is a compound preposition semantically equivalent to “besides”. Or “_apart from_.” _Apart from me, nobody will ever do anything…_ ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/15 "2011-12-20T13:38:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I don’t know whose (“who’s”) fault it is, but it comes from learning only half the lesson. Kids were constantly corrected for their naive grammar, but failed to get full point of object-subject agreement. > > Kid says, “Me and Tom went fishing.” > Teacher says, “That’s wrong! ‘Tom and I went fishing.’” > Kid concludes: Uh oh! I shouldn’t say “me,” ever! really it goes: Kid says, “Me and Tom went fishing.” Teacher says, “That’s wrong! ‘Tom and I went fishing.’” Kid concludes: teacher is not making any sense, I was with Tom the whole time and the teacher was not there, but it’s not pleasant to correct her, so yeah I’ll tell her what she wants to hear. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/16 "2011-12-20T13:39:58Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Language is alive, dusty books do not determine the prerogative of living things. > > However, your Piting is pathetic I’m afraid. Agreed, but insightful into the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/17 "2011-12-20T14:09:34Z")
> [@tenacious\_j](#): > > Nobody else, other than me, will ever do anything with, or to, myself. Me is 100% in favor of executing people who misuse reflexive pronouns. “Myself” is not a fancier way of saying “me”, people. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/18 "2011-12-20T14:45:07Z")
I am not bothered much about mixing up “me” and “I”, although I try to get it “correct” (:rolleyes:) when speaking in a formal setting, and I do wince a little when my coworkers and boss get it wrong in front of others. However, I too find gratuitous insertion of reflexive pronouns grating. It’s a bit hypocritical, since I consider myself pretty descriptivist, but it’s a little embarrassing to have the boss talking about how “myself joined the center” when we’re at a conference in DC in front of a congresscritters and their minions. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/19 "2011-12-20T15:08:39Z")
My favorite is when I get corrected for: ME: “You can give that to John or me.” SmartAss: “John or _I_ … .” ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811/20 "2011-12-20T15:27:39Z")
On a somewhat related note, I’d like to add that no matter how many times people say it, I cannot “look myself in the mirror”. Whenever I hear this, it makes me want to stab myself in the eye. See what I did there? I stab him, I stab you, so I stab myself. Fine. But I look **at** him, I look **at** you, and so, I look **at** myself. That is all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-the-teacher-who-decided-me-was-a-dirty-word/606811.md?page=2)