# Damn Yankees kill another Southern institution: White Lily flour **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939 "2008-06-23T17:15:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/21 "2008-06-23T20:01:11Z")
Those Smuckers! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/22 "2008-06-23T20:19:44Z")
As I mentioned in the other thread on the subject, it appears Smuckers has also assimilated Martha White. But at least Martha White flour is still milled in Tennessee. And Martha White has the advantage of a kick-ass bluegrass jingle. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/23 "2008-06-23T20:26:14Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] As I mentioned in the other thread on the subject, it appears Smuckers has also assimilated Martha White. But at least Martha White flour is still milled in Tennessee. And Martha White has the advantage of a kick-ass bluegrass jingle. [/QUOTE] I didn’t know that Martha White was a Smuckers company now. Crap. I’m glad it’s still milled in Jackson, but Smuckers has made my shitlist. I’ll have to try to find a locally milled flour. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/24 "2008-06-23T20:35:06Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] I didn’t know that Martha White was a Smuckers company now. Crap. I’m glad it’s still milled in Jackson, but Smuckers has made my shitlist. I’ll have to try to find a locally milled flour. [/QUOTE] Well, there’s [Southeastern Mills in Rome, GA](http://www.semills.com/smweb.nsf/Products_Flour). ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/25 "2008-06-23T20:40:06Z")
Nice. Rome’s just about 2 hours from me. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/26 "2008-06-23T20:44:57Z")
[QUOTE=lieu] Goddangit… don’t mess with a man’s biscuits. [/QUOTE] Words to live by ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/27 "2008-06-23T20:58:57Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Your levity, which, I’m sure, is not malicious and reveals only that you’re unfamiliar with the brand, is still somehow slightly offensive. That’s how strongly a lot of Southerners feel about White Lily. [/QUOTE] As a “Damn Yankee,” I find your thread title slightly offensive. I truly am sorry about your biscuits; they sound like an extremely important part of Southern culture, but I hardly think this was an act of Northern aggression. I don’t think the CEO of Smuckers is cavorting around his office exclaiming “Take that Dixie!” I’m not too worked up.. my point is that I think the (hopeful) hyperbole in your thread title can only lead to trouble and detracts from the true purpose of your rant, the flour. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/28 "2008-06-23T21:13:00Z")
I’m sorry you’re offended, but after all the “Southern Pride - Why?” and “It’s hate, not heritage” threads I’ve seen spewed all over this board recently, I feel that a relatively mild “damn Yankee” or two is entirely justified…especially since 1) the is the Pit, 2) Smucker’s is, in fact, a damn Yankee company, and 3) SDMB is starting to piss me off more and more. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/29 "2008-06-23T21:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] I’m sorry you’re offended, but after all the “Southern Pride - Why?” and “It’s hate, not heritage” threads I’ve seen spewed all over this board recently, I feel that a relatively mild “damn Yankee” or two is entirely justified…especially since 1) the is the Pit, 2) Smucker’s is, in fact, a damn Yankee company, and 3) SDMB is starting to piss me off more and more. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. I guess what irked me a little was the thought of millions of southerners going to the supermarket and thinking “Damn Yankees, fuck all of them with a cactus for taking our biscuits away,” instead of “Damn Smuckers,” or something along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/30 "2008-06-23T21:21:49Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] I’m sorry you’re offended, but after all the “Southern Pride - Why?” and “It’s hate, not heritage” threads I’ve seen spewed all over this board recently, I feel that a relatively mild “damn Yankee” or two is entirely justified…especially since 1) the is the Pit, 2) Smucker’s is, in fact, a damn Yankee company, and 3) SDMB is starting to piss me off more and more. [/QUOTE] Congratulations on your expeditious retreat from the moral high ground. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/31 "2008-06-23T21:23:11Z")
Just calm down and take some Goody’s Powder. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/32 "2008-06-23T21:35:25Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Congratulations on your expeditious retreat from the moral high ground. [/QUOTE] I’ve never inhabited the moral high ground in my life. I’m merely amazed that a lot of Dopers, normally well adjusted and tolerant, have this giant, Dixie-sized blind spot. I don’t have to be standing on the Holy Mount for that to piss me off. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/33 "2008-06-23T21:43:51Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] Yeah - finally, the South will rise again, as they’ve been threatening for over a hundred years! And all because of flour. [/QUOTE] Worked well for them last time. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/34 "2008-06-23T21:47:10Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] I don’t think the CEO of Smuckers is cavorting around his office exclaiming “Take that Dixie!” [/QUOTE] Of course he did. AND he held a gun to the head of the owner of White Lily, forcing him to sell the mills. All while cackling, stroking his beard, and shouting 'Take _that_ Johnny Reb!" ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/35 "2008-06-23T21:48:04Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] Just calm down and take some Goody’s Powder. [/QUOTE] You missed the shibboleth. You never take SOME Goody’s powder, you take A Goody’s powder. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/36 "2008-06-23T21:50:55Z")
[QUOTE=Orual] Of course he did. AND he held a gun to the head of the owner of White Lily, forcing him to sell the mills. All while cackling, stroking his beard, and shouting 'Take _that_ Johnny Reb!" [/QUOTE] Ah, yes. Trust a smug Doper to miss the point. The offensive thing is not that Smucker’s bought the company, but that they both took it out of the South, where it has been for 125 years, and changed the product. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/37 "2008-06-23T21:53:32Z")
It is well known in Smuckers company lore that way back in 1897 when Jerome Monroe Smucker was making his first batches of cider and apple butter, he put a little bit of Dixie in each jar. Until they caught him at it one day (Dixie had mysteriously disappeared). :eek: ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/38 "2008-06-23T22:02:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Serious point, though: White Lily is described in the article as an allegedly all purpose flour, but the article is emphasizing it’s a low protein high gluten flour. Which, AIUI, defines a cake flour. And there are plenty of cake flours on the market already. I can see that the price differential may be a problem, but that’s not the same as saying that there won’t be cake flours available once White Lily changes. Cake flour is generally 6-8% protein, while AP flour is usually 10-11%. According to a 1999 _Cook’s Illustrated_ article (sub. required), White Lily is 8-9% protein. This lends some credence to Alton Brown’s original biscuit recipe, which used 1/2 AP and 1/2 cake flour. (His later books include revised recipes that use all AP.) CI says that the biscuits made with White Lily were “extremely fluffy, tender, and light”, but they preferred those made with King Arthur AP (11.7% protein), which were “buttery, fresh flavor; crispy, crunchy exterior; hearty”. This is probably a difference of style, perhaps a northern vs. southern thing. FWIW, I use King Arthur flours almost exclusively, but I still hate to see a Southern institution like White Lily moving up north. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/39 "2008-06-23T22:11:52Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Ah, yes. Trust a smug Doper to miss the point. The offensive thing is not that Smucker’s bought the company, but that they both took it out of the South, where it has been for 125 years, and changed the product. [/QUOTE] How is that more offensive than the original owners selling? Perhaps my smugness is getting in the way of my comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![dactylic\_hexameter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@dactylic\_hexameter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dactylic_hexameter)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/40 "2008-06-23T22:20:56Z")
As a dyed in the maple-syrup northerner, I too was saddened by this article. Our family came late to White Lily flour. We only started using it in the last few years, having found out about it from Gourmet magazine. We don’t use it for biscuits, but for fantastic scones and pancakes. My mother has a friend in Durham NC from whom we receive shipments of that essential white powder. He’s sending us a couple of bags now, which I expect will be hoarded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939.md?page=3)