# Damn Yankees kill another Southern institution: White Lily flour **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939 "2008-06-23T17:15:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/121 "2008-06-24T20:45:29Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Okay, I promised to leave, but not so long as you keep yapping at me. Regarding your last: It is a fallacy to assume that everyone who does not agree with your position does not understand it. There hasn’t been a failure of communication here; there hasn’t been a missed opportunity for education; there hasn’t been some lack of comprehension on my part regarding the importance of flour. You’re being a bit of a hysterical twit over this, and you’re not going to be able to educate me out of that opinion. [/QUOTE] Not really. For some of us, cooking & food are a very, very large part of our lives, and the ingredients we use are important to us. To say “it’s just flour” really demonstrates a certain level of ignorance on the subject. It’s like telling a seamstress that “it’s just cotton”, or a carpenter that “it’s just wood”. Either that, or you’re purposely trying to get under someone’s skin. I’m not sure which of the two it is. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/122 "2008-06-24T20:49:35Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] When I saw the thread title, I assumed you were making a pop culture reference for the purpose of a snappy title (you know, _Damn Yankees_) [/QUOTE] He was. [QUOTE=WhyNot] but there’s seriously more hate being spewed in this thread than in the last dozen political threads combined, and some of it coming from Dopers I really admire. Fuck. [/QUOTE] It wasn’t the Dixie Dopers who started it, though. This time Sumter shot first; the thread _became_ a “let’s slam the south and the use of the term Yankees” thread in addition to being “an institution is being moved and irrevocably altered”. Much of it is, admittedly, leftover from other threads. I’ll speak only for myself as a reasonably intelligent southern Doper, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t others like me getting a bit of a chip on our shoulder from being counted as backwards bigots if we don’t hang our head in shame whenever the past is mentioned or damned near called a Klansman if we try to so much as say “not all Southerners are anti-intellectual Bushite Baptists (or white, for that matter)” or “the Civil War was a _whole_ lot more complex on the social level than just ‘Hey, let’s kill Yankees so the rich can keep their slaves!’” and we’re called this by people who wouldn’t _dream_ of making such sweeping generalizations about other minorities. Gets old, and it’s not just me who thinks so: even my slaves have complained (though how they know what it said when they aren’t supposed to be able to read is something I’m not sure but intend to take some ‘well laid on’ measures to find out). ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/123 "2008-06-24T20:51:22Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Considering that my own mother refuses to set foot in Marshall Fields now that they turned it into a Macy_s, and I cringe a little every time I pass the store, I can see why you’re upset at the ending of a cultural institution. I really can. I was seriously pissed when they changed that sign, and damn it, Macy_s is NOT Marshall Fields and now their Christmas windows suck ass and I’m really irritated that my daughter won’t ever get to see the amazing sights I did as a kid or taste the fresh made mints inside. I get anger at homogenization, I really really do. It’s your frothing vitriol aimed at “Yankees” that makes me wonder if you might want to switch to the decaf. When I saw the thread title, I assumed you were making a pop culture reference for the purpose of a snappy title (you know, _Damn Yankees_), but there’s seriously more hate being spewed in this thread than in the last dozen political threads combined, and some of it coming from Dopers I really admire. Fuck. _shakes head and backs out slowly_ [/QUOTE] I appreciate your sympathy. It occurs to me that people here may be lacking some background on the thread title (although **MEBuckner** filled in part of the picture.) 1. “Damn Yankee” (or “Damnyankee”) is a commonly-used referent in the South. It refers not to all Yankees, but to those who monkey around with essentially Southern things. Carpetbaggers. Rude people. People who come here and bitch about how much better things are Up North. Fans of beef barbecue. Haters of sweet tea. Although this was not always the case, it is used almost exclusively these days in a humorous, tongue-in-cheek manner. 2. Almost exclusively. I admit that my own usage was semi-serious, but it’s because it appears that the only form of bigotry that’s acceptable on the Dope is anti-Southern bigotry. There have been a spate of recent threads bashing anything and everything Southern. I won’t link to them, but see my responses upthread to get an idea of where to look. This thread also demonstrates it. You have people with absolutely NO reference for what I’m talking about, but instead of simply accepting that WL is important to this particular culture, I get a screen full of “I don’t give a shit.” Part of it, I believe, stems from some non-Southerners’ belief that the South really doesn’t have a separate cultural identity at all (which is astoundingly ignorant,) or that we shouldn’t, or that we should just shut up and go along with whatever we’re told, because hey, we’re the ass-backward South. Duh. EVERYBODY knows that. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/124 "2008-06-24T20:51:25Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] I quite obviously NEVER said this. You can spin my words however you like so long as you do not cross the line into clear dishonesty about them. When you do, you can expect me to correct you, every time. [/QUOTE] It was a _joke_ [cough-humorless stupid bitch/cough] [QUOTE=Jodi] Takes one to know one, “sugar.” [/QUOTE] Damn what wit. Were you born with it or did you take private lessons from a _Saved by the Bell_ writer? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/125 "2008-06-24T20:52:06Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] Not really. For some of us, cooking & food are a very, very large part of our lives, and the ingredients we use are important to us. To say “it’s just flour” really demonstrates a certain level of ignorance on the subject. It’s like telling a seamstress that “it’s just cotton”, or a carpenter that “it’s just wood”. [/QUOTE] That’s _exactly_ what it’s like. It’s also like telling a vintner “it’s just wine” or a DOD addict “it’s just a game.” My point is not that the connoisseur does not have a defensible POV, but so does the person who honestly does not care about the nuances of a specialized subject. _Both_ are fully defensible points of view. What is not defensible is to expect every layman to agree with the connoisseur’s opinion on the depth of their own personal tragedy, or to say that you simply cannot see how anyone would hold a position other than your own. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/126 "2008-06-24T20:55:02Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Okay, I promised to leave, but not so long as you keep yapping at me. Regarding your last: It is a fallacy to assume that everyone who does not agree with your position does not understand it. There hasn’t been a failure of communication here; there hasn’t been a missed opportunity for education; there hasn’t been some lack of comprehension on my part regarding the importance of flour. You’re being a bit of a hysterical twit over this, and you’re not going to be able to educate me out of that opinion. [/QUOTE] Then be prepared for a long stay in this thread. Look at it this way. Would you go into a different, non-American culture and start bitching to the natives that the way they have been doing things for 100 years, and the things they find important, are stupid and ignorant, and you don’t give a shit? Hopefully not, but if you did, they’d be right to think you an ignorant, braying retard. Such is the position in which you find yourself. You DO NOT UNDERSTAND what I’m talking about, yet you keep opining. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/127 "2008-06-24T20:56:05Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] Either that, or you’re purposely trying to get under someone’s skin. I’m not sure which of the two it is. [/QUOTE] I’ve got a pretty good idea which it is. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/128 "2008-06-24T20:56:32Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] It was a _joke_ [cough-humorless stupid bitch/cough] [/quote] Oh, my sides. [cough-passive-agressive dick/cough] > [@](#): > > Damn what wit. Were you born with it or did you take private lessons from a _Saved by the Bell_ writer? See, that disappoints me. I think we both know you have enough acerbic with for both of us, and I say that seriously. Surely you could have done better than that. Take another shot at it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/129 "2008-06-24T20:57:00Z")
I should perhaps add that this [QUOTE=Joe-Sampiro-Bob] Gets old, and it’s not just me who thinks so: even my slaves have complained (though how they know what it said when they aren’t supposed to be able to read is something I’m not sure but intend to take some ‘well laid on’ measures to find out). [/QUOTE] is a joke, lest Jodi call the Department of Labor. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/130 "2008-06-24T20:58:35Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] That’s _exactly_ what it’s like. It’s also like telling a vintner “it’s just wine” or a DOD addict “it’s just a game.” My point is not that the connoisseur does not have a defensible POV, but so does the person who honestly does not care about the nuances of a specialized subject. _Both_ are fully defensible points of view. What is not defensible is to expect every layman to agree with the connoisseur’s opinion on the depth of their own personal tragedy, or to say that you simply cannot see how anyone would hold a position other than your own. [/QUOTE] Wow. For someone who doesn’t care, you sure post a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/131 "2008-06-24T20:58:59Z")
**LOUD NOISES** ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/132 "2008-06-24T20:59:10Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] [cough-passive-agressive dick/cough] [/QUOTE] THERE’S NO NEED TO BRING THAT UP! IT WAS ONE TIME AND LIKE I TOLD YOU AT THE TIME I WAS FUCKING **TIRED**! (And the fact you smelled like Jell-O shooters and Lutefisk belches didn’t help matters!) ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/133 "2008-06-24T20:59:32Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Then be prepared for a long stay in this thread. Look at it this way. Would you go into a different, non-American culture and start bitching to the natives that the way they have been doing things for 100 years, and the things they find important, are stupid and ignorant, and you don’t give a shit? Hopefully not, but if you did, they’d be right to think you an ignorant, braying retard. [/quote] I have absolutely no innate respect for anything anyone has done for 100 years, based solely on the fact they’ve been doing if for a hundred years. I never said you were stupid or ignorant, in fact YOU called ME ignorant, not the other way around. Now I’m a “retard” – what can I say? Lots of us braying Northerners don’t use that word anymore. > [@](#): > > Such is the position in which you find yourself. You DO NOT UNDERSTAND what I’m talking about, yet you keep opining. As I said: To assume that everyone who disagrees with you misunderstood you is frequently an error. I’m curious as to what it is you think I’m not understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/134 "2008-06-24T21:01:26Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Wow. For someone who doesn’t care, you sure post a lot. [/QUOTE] And yet we have this: > [@Ogre](#): > > Then be prepared for a long stay in this thread. Make up your mind: Do you want me to participate or not? Cause I could go eithe way with no hard feelings, and that’s saying something considering you just called me a “ignorant braying retard.” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/135 "2008-06-24T21:04:13Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] It wasn’t the Dixie Dopers who started it, though. [/QUOTE] [Mom Voice] I don’t care WHO started it, young man! [/MV] 😉 > [@](#): > > Much of it is, admittedly, leftover from other threads. Fair enough. I admit, I don’t get involved in a lot of the dicier threads on here, and an anti-South bias has mostly escaped me. Being, you know, a Yankee. I will admit, heart on sleeve, that there are a lot of aspects of Southern culture which scare the shit out of me - I guess it’s the group of American cultures I’m least familiar with, thanks to growing up in a multi-racial multi-national city in the north. I do think of “The South” (as if there were such a homogenous place) as a place where I have to map my route carefully if traveling with my gay black neopagan friends, to be honest. But I promise to try to be more aware of my own biases, and give you permission to call me out if you see me saying somethin’ stupid (as I’m sure I just did.) > [@](#): > > Gets old, and it’s not just me who thinks so: even my slaves have complained (though how they know what it said when they aren’t supposed to be able to read is something I’m not sure but intend to take some ‘well laid on’ measures to find out). Hee-hee. I still love you, **'Piro**. [QUOTE=Ogre] 1. “Damn Yankee” (or “Damnyankee”) is a commonly-used referent in the South. It refers not to all Yankees, **but to those who monkey around with essentially Southern things.** [/QUOTE] (bolding mine) _light bulb moment_ OH! Okay, I get it know. Yes, that makes total sense. (I love real sweet tea, but I think the stuff McDonald’s is pushing right now is horrible…am I still okay?) Sorry, didn’t mean to let actual understanding and ignorance fighting get in the way here. 😉 Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/136 "2008-06-24T21:06:39Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] As I said: To assume that everyone who disagrees with you misunderstood you is frequently an error. I’m curious as to what it is you think I’m not understanding. [/QUOTE] It is not an error to assume that someone who does not have the cultural background on an issue, does not understand said issue. This is the very definition of “ignorance.” It’s either that, or you’re an uncaring, callous human being. If the latter, then you’re simply trolling my thread. I’m trying to be generous and think of you as merely ignorant. It IS important. You might as well take that as a given. If it weren’t, the White Lily story wouldn’t be all over every Southern newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/137 "2008-06-24T21:08:13Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] If you’ll hijack a White Lily flour thread to bash Southern states for inequitable tax structures from 4 years ago (an inequity shared with more than half of the states) then I’d hate to learn your feelings on ethnic minorities due to the high incarceration and public assistance rates. Not that I’d expect you to have the guts to express them here, of course. ☹ [/QUOTE] 😕 What the hell are you talking about? Confused by the facts, or just trying to come up with a strawman to hit me over the head with? I didn’t hijack the thread, so much as continue the hijack. Someone gets pissed off about flour and refers to Northerners as Damn Yankees and teh South suxxors, and I can’t respond to it? But c’mon, as many others have pointed out, it isn’t as if all of us Northerners have a list of Southern institutions to crush. We feel that Sherman did enough. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/138 "2008-06-24T21:08:39Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] And yet we have this: Make up your mind: Do you want me to participate or not? Cause I could go eithe way with no hard feelings, and that’s saying something considering you just called me a “ignorant braying retard.” [/QUOTE] I couldn’t care less whether you stay or not. At some point in the process, I might mentally write you off as unworthy of further response, but who knows? It might be a while. The thread doesn’t matter. I just get tired of being told how I should feel about something I’ve had my entire life, now that it’s going away. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/139 "2008-06-24T21:09:08Z")
Maybe I missed it while canvassing this thread, but did anyone actually complain directly to Smuckers? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939/140 "2008-06-24T21:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] . . . the only form of bigotry that’s acceptable on the Dope is anti-Southern bigotry . . . [/QUOTE] Well, maybe so, but I’d say anti-religious bigotry has a sizable presence… Anyhoo, as for the storm cloud that’s brewing (upon preview, now hailing and lightning-ing) over this thread, I have two quick things to say One, IMHO **Jodi** is not saying that people who miss White Lily are stupid or the like, but that there will be some people who don’t mind its absence so much and that these people should not be castigated. Two, **Jodi** , I think you are underestimating the importance of this flour. Yes to some it 's “just flour” and that’s fine, but to a large portion of Southerners it’s not. Can’t everyone just chill the fuck out? Jesus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees-kill-another-southern-institution-white-lily-flour/453939.md?page=8)