# Damn Yankees. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518 "2004-02-16T19:07:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/1 "2004-02-16T19:07:06Z")
[The Yankees are a nod away from obtaining Alex Rodriguez from the Rangers for Alfonso Soriano…](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1735937) So let’s see, they now have a line-up that has Derek Jeter, A-Rod (arguably the best player in baseball), Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Bernie Williams, and Jorge Posada one after the other. The payroll is at $190 million, or \>$60 million more than the 2nd highest Red Sox. I know that big contracts does not a championship make, but this is getting absurd. How many superstars can one team have? Are Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa gonna join the parade? Heck, let’s just rename the team the New York All-Stars and ship all of MLB to NY to face the minor-league juggernaughts of Tacoma and Pawtuckett. And from a human-interest angle, how do you cram all of those big heads into one locker room? Perhaps Jeter starts cracking as his shortstop-hood is in jeopardy, and A-Rod takes over amid furious objections, which causes the team to degenerate into petty squabbling that leads to 5-10 errors per game as A-Rod and D-Jet fight over grounders, offsetting the 7 trillion home runs (give or take a billion) that the team is slated to hit. So, uh… I-CHI-RO! ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/2 "2004-02-16T19:12:21Z")
Wow, you’re going to be really mad when they pick up Jose Vidro to play second, aren’t you? Because I sure as hell guarantee you they aren’t sticking Cairo or Wilson out there on a regular basis. The Yankees have a really, really good team, but every team is beatable in the postseason. The only team this really hurts for sure are the Red Sox, and I have no pity for them. Nobody else in the AL East was going to compete and everyone from every other division can still make the playoffs. Just ask the Mariners how much good a 116 win team does you in the playoffs. That said, I’ll be surprised if the Yankees win more than 105. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/3 "2004-02-16T19:18:46Z")
This only bugs me because I’m used to rooting for ARod. No way, no how can I root for a Yankee. Julie ---
**Author:** ![schplebordnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@schplebordnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schplebordnik)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/4 "2004-02-16T19:36:50Z")
This can only be bad for the Yankees. With this lineup and this payroll, Steinbrenner is going to be under the delusion that the Yankees should win every game, waltz thru the playoffs, and win the Series in 4. Anything less, and he’ll go ballistic and start threatening to fire people and mouthing off to the Post. That will cause team anxiety and dissention and the Yankees will fold. Remember, we heard the same gripes when they got Giambi. How many rings did he win for the Yankees? How long after he joined did you start hearing the “Torre is getting fired” rumors. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/5 "2004-02-16T19:51:11Z")
I don’t mind this trade in particular, it’s the total ridiculousness of payroll in baseball to start with. By buying up every piece of talent in the league, having NO limit on salary, the Yankees are effectively ruling about 14 teams out of contention, because they simply can’t afford to put a competitive team up against the major market teams. Yes, the Marlins won. That will not happen year to year. And this isn’t sour grapes talking. The Cubs have a shot at the greatest pitching staff in a long time. I just think the Yankees, and Bud “Abe Sapien” Selig are fucking RUINING MLB by not putting some sort of cap or profit sharing on the teams. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/6 "2004-02-16T20:25:38Z")
> [@schplebordnik](#): > > That will cause team anxiety and dissention and the Yankees will fold. Torre’s leaving after the season anyway, being sick of George’s crap. If George blows up again, make that when, he’ll just quit. But let’s look at the whole team, shall we? Their starting pitching will be a lot weaker, defense up the middle is horrible (Posada is average with the glove, some unknown is at 2B and a worn-out Lofton is covering a lot of CF until he switches with Matsui, as I predict), Sheffield is a defensive liability in RF and is about done as a hitter, Giambi is coming off surgery (how’s Tony Clark at 1B sound to ya?), Rodriguez will be adjusting to a new position. Forget Vidro, MLB won’t let the Yanks raid the 'Spos after this deal. The Sox are much better in both the rotation and the bullpen with Schilling and Foulke, their defense up the middle has gone from bad to pretty good just by adding Reese, their only offensive loss is Walker (who can’t be expected to repeat last year’s performance anyway). Add those deltas to a very close finish last year, and Boston still looks pretty good for the pennant. Francona has a reputation for smoothing out ruffled feathers, which he’ll need on Nomar, and Manny won’t get upset; he never does. If George wants to make moves based more on thinking he’s screwing Boston than on helping his own team, then let him. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/7 "2004-02-16T20:40:10Z")
Jose Vidro at second? What happened to Soriano? Is he gone? Anyway, regarding the OP: this one takes the cake. To put A Rod at fucking third base shows the Yankees have too much money to spend wisely. This team will be a total bust, a cautionary tale for years to come. They won’t even make the playoffs. The Baseball Gods won’t allow it. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/8 "2004-02-16T21:12:21Z")
[It’s Official: Alex Rodriguez is a Yankee.](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/16/sports/baseball/16CND-YANK.html?ex=1077598800&pagewanted=print&position=) Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/9 "2004-02-16T21:20:20Z")
I see. Soriano’s what they traded for A Rod. So why not have A Rod play second? It’s a more natural change for a shortstop and they’d be using his defensive skills better. It’s easy to find power at the corners, much easier than up the middle. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/10 "2004-02-16T21:31:54Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > I see. Soriano’s what they traded for A Rod. So why not have A Rod play second? It’s a more natural change for a shortstop and they’d be using his defensive skills better. It’s easy to find power at the corners, much easier than up the middle. Why they would move ARod from his natural position in favor of the hamfisted Jeter is the better question. Jeter is really really bad defensively. ARod isn’t. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/11 "2004-02-16T21:37:44Z")
If Jeter decided to take his status as team captain seriously (instead of as an apology from King George for his off-season remarks last year), he’d offer to play 3rd base instead of A-Rod. I don’t know why he wouldn’t - does he just get a giant hard-on every time he’s mentioned in the same breath as Nomar? ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/12 "2004-02-16T21:53:52Z")
The Yankee situation is just whacked. It’s ridiculous that every year we never have to wonder where the top free agents are going to sign – of course, they’re going to end up in pinstripes. It’s total bullshit. The only saving grace I have left is watching them choke in the post-season, which doesn’t happen often enough for my liking. How does a team that’s just a few bucks shy of $200 million in payroll alone turn a **profit** , for God’s sake? Sincerely, Chastain86 St. Louis sports fan ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/13 "2004-02-16T22:10:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Why they would move ARod from his natural position in favor of the hamfisted Jeter is the better question. Jeter is really really bad defensively. ARod isn’t. > > Julie I don’t know if he’s “really really bad.” Certainly he’s no Ozzie Smith, but he cuts the mustard. Last year, I think he had some bad games (including playoff games), but he was pretty banged up early on. I’ve seen him make defensive plays that turned games (and playoff series) around. Shrug. Far be it from me to take a Yankee side in a dispute, but Jeter’s OK. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/14 "2004-02-16T22:35:56Z")
First in war, First in peace, Last in the American League. With a 190 million dollar payroll, you’d think that the Yankees would see the virtue in padding the A-league with an easy to bat around team of scrubs. That is why God created the Washington Senators, and that is why God is angry now. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/15 "2004-02-16T22:36:30Z")
Neither the Yankees (based on talent level) or the Red Sox (based on age/fragility) have the pitching to win a championship in '04. The Yankees traded one excellent relatively cheap position player for an excellent high-priced position player. I don’t see where this especially rocks the foundation of baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/16 "2004-02-16T23:21:24Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > I don’t mind this trade in particular, it’s the total ridiculousness of payroll in baseball to start with. By buying up every piece of talent in the league, having NO limit on salary, the Yankees are effectively ruling about 14 teams out of contention, because they simply can’t afford to put a competitive team up against the major market teams. Like the Oakland Athletics? Aren’t 14 teams our of contention every year? And is this necessarly a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/17 "2004-02-16T23:37:39Z")
I’m kind of hoping George III kicks the bucket, and his heirs spend the vast Yankee revenue stream on less sensible things, such as buying Guam, instead of obtaining a second all star shortstop to go with the one they’ve already got. On a baseball level, it looks like the Yankees have solved their hole at 3B by creating one at 2B. Their free agent outfielders, Lofton and Sheffield, both have a lot of mileage on them. You could’ve got Lofton at this time last year for a song. As for their pitching, they’ve replaced Clemens and Petitte with Vazquez and Brown, which is a slight downgrade, what with Brown’s injury history and Vazquez never having been on the big stage before. I’m all for reigning in the Yankees and their guaranteed-to-make-the-postseason-in-the-AL East spending practices, but this new trade doesn’t upset me that much. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/18 "2004-02-16T23:38:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But let’s look at the whole team, shall we? Their starting pitching will be a lot weaker I’m sorry, but how are Brown and Vasquez worse than Pettitte and Clemens? Granted, Brown’s an injury risk, but if he’s healthy then the only team that might have a better rotation in the American League is Oakland. > [@](#): > > defense up the middle is horrible (Posada is average with the glove, some unknown is at 2B and a worn-out Lofton is covering a lot of CF until he switches with Matsui, as I predict) Sorry, but anyone they get will be better than Soriano defensively and Lofton is better than gimpy Williams. At worst their defense up the middle becomes average. > [@](#): > > Sheffield is a defensive liability in RF and is about done as a hitter Remind me how a guy who hit .330/.419/.604 last year is about done as a hitter. > [@](#): > > Giambi is coming off surgery (how’s Tony Clark at 1B sound to ya?) Even injured last year he hit 41 homers and had a .412 OBP. > [@](#): > > Rodriguez will be adjusting to a new position. You’ve got a month while that’s a real factor. After that, he becomes one of the better defensive third basemen in the league. > [@](#): > > Forget Vidro, MLB won’t let the Yanks raid the 'Spos after this deal. I’d like to believe that. Really, I would. > [@](#): > > The Sox are much better in both the rotation and the bullpen with Schilling and Foulke That’s hilarious. Pedro and Schilling do not a rotation make. Do you really think Lowe is going to return to his 2002 form? Now, granted, with Reese up the middle, his ERA might drop a little, but his strikeouts rate pretty much sucks. Wakefield’s solid, but that’s about it. And Kim is a headcase. Pedro and Schilling are better than Mussina and Brown, granted. But Vasquez beats out whoever the Yankees throw out at #3. And while Lieber and Contreras are big question marks, there’s no reason to believe they can’t outpitch Wake and Kim. At best, the rotation is a wash. Same with the bullpen, but I’d give the slight edge to the Yankees. Even though Foulke is better than Rivera at this point, I think Quantrill and Gordon are going to be better than the Sox set up men. > [@](#): > > their defense up the middle has gone from bad to pretty good just by adding Reese Very true. > [@](#): > > their only offensive loss is Walker (who can’t be expected to repeat last year’s performance anyway). And you think Mueller will? > [@](#): > > Add those deltas to a very close finish last year, and Boston still looks pretty good for the pennant. I’m sorry, how is being out of it by 6 games a very close finish? I’m sorry, but Boston doesn’t look good for the division title at all this year. And with a tough division, they may not even win the wild card. > [@](#): > > Francona has a reputation for smoothing out ruffled feathers, which he’ll need on Nomar, and Manny won’t get upset; he never does. I don’t think that’s going to be a problem. Nomar’s professional enough to not let off field troubles affect his play. And Manny’s in his own little world, as you say. > [@](#): > > If George wants to make moves based more on thinking he’s screwing Boston than on helping his own team, then let him. How did he not help his own team? ---
**Author:** ![wakimika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@wakimika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wakimika)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/19 "2004-02-16T23:55:40Z")
I agree with pretty much everything **Neurotik** wrote except: Foulke better than Rivera? Rivera’s stats last year: ERA:1.66 Saves 40 Blown Saves 6. For Foulke it’s 2.08/43/5. Looks about even, but Rivera has performed in the pressure cooker. Foulke is about to find out what that’s like. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/20 "2004-02-17T00:03:09Z")
> [@wakimika](#): > > I agree with pretty much everything **Neurotik** wrote except: Foulke better than Rivera? Rivera’s stats last year: ERA:1.66 Saves 40 Blown Saves 6. For Foulke it’s 2.08/43/5. Looks about even, but Rivera has performed in the pressure cooker. Foulke is about to find out what that’s like. I was going with Foulke’s 9.14 K/9 and .89 WHIP compared to Rivera’s 8.02 and 1.00. Plus, Foulke pitched 15 more innings. We’ll see. If Rivera’s better, it’s not by much. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518.md?page=2)