# Damn Yankees. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518 "2004-02-16T19:07:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/21 "2004-02-17T00:13:13Z")
God it feels good to be talking baseball again. Soon there’ll be the first robin of spring if I have to go to fucking Mexico and bring it back at gunpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/22 "2004-02-17T02:02:28Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Bud “Abe Sapien” Selig Congratulations. I have now soaked my Levis. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/23 "2004-02-17T03:05:26Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I was going with Foulke’s 9.14 K/9 and .89 WHIP compared to Rivera’s 8.02 and 1.00. Plus, Foulke pitched 15 more innings. > > We’ll see. If Rivera’s better, it’s not by much. Question: How many years has Foulke been at it? I have been told that Mariano has already played more years than most closers are able to do. Certainly he’s not the threat he was when he started; maybe that’s because hitters have had some experience with him now, I don’t know. But he’s not the completely unhittable pitcher he once was. Can he be past his prime? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/24 "2004-02-17T03:13:45Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Question: How many years has Foulke been at it? I have been told that Mariano has already played more years than most closers are able to do. Certainly he’s not the threat he was when he started; maybe that’s because hitters have had some experience with him now, I don’t know. But he’s not the completely unhittable pitcher he once was. Can he be past his prime? At 34 he’s almost certainly past his prime. Especially since he relies on a fast ball. That doesn’t mean he’s still not really good, though. Look at Clemens. He was definitely past his prime the past few years, but he was still one of the better pitchers in the league. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/25 "2004-02-17T03:17:49Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > At 34 he’s almost certainly past his prime. Especially since he relies on a fast ball. That doesn’t mean he’s still not really good, though. Look at Clemens. He was definitely past his prime the past few years, but he was still one of the better pitchers in the league. Oh, I agree completely. Clemens is still better than an awful lot of much younger guys. Of course, he works like a dog at it. What I meant was not just his age, but how long has Foulke been pitching? ---
**Author:** ![wakimika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@wakimika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wakimika)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/26 "2004-02-17T03:28:47Z")
Rivera might still be _in_ his prime. After all, Dennis Eckersley had his best season as a closer when he was 38 (51 saves/1.91 e.r.a.) and he threw heat. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/27 "2004-02-17T03:34:58Z")
Well, I give up. Does anybody know the number of years these guys have been pitching? NOT how old they are? From what I’ve heard, Mariano’s age is a bit of a mystery anyway; he may (or may not) be older than the age that’s listed. ---
**Author:** ![Xgemina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b5e925/32.png) [@Xgemina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xgemina)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/28 "2004-02-17T04:42:15Z")
Foulke: 7 years Rivera: 9 years Clemens: 20 years source: ESPN MLB player profiles [http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players) These are years experience in the majors. Hope this answers your question, **MLS**. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/29 "2004-02-17T04:47:51Z")
Thanks. My guess is still that Marianos years are numbered – it’s my impression that closers just don’t last as long as starters, and Clemens is certainly an exception to the usual case anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/30 "2004-02-17T04:57:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Their starting pitching will be a lot weaker… I’m also with **Neurotik** on this one. I just checked Win Share totals for 2003, and I found: Vazquez: 21 Brown: 20 Clemens: 15 Pettitte: 15 Clemens is two years older than Brown, and Pettitte is four years older than Vazquez. I think the Yankees pitching staff is moderately stronger this year than last, and their hitting is now also stronger. Hey, I’m a big Red Sox fan, and I wish it wasn’t so. But it’s so. I think the Damn Yanks win 110 games this year, barring major injuries to superstars. -P ---
**Author:** ![Squonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squonk)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/31 "2004-02-17T05:50:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Francona has a reputation for smoothing out ruffled feathers Huh? Based on his tenure in Philadelphia, I thought he had a reputation as a mediocre manager. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terd\_ferguson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@terd\_ferguson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terd_ferguson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/32 "2004-02-17T06:06:00Z")
And now it looks like they might be getting Maddux. If it turns out to be true, which I don’t think it will, this is way over the top. Maddux said he wants to stay in the NL and would prefer to play closer to the west coast. But Boras is his agent, so $ is probably his first priority. Here is a link: [http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1736923](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1736923) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/33 "2004-02-17T12:24:43Z")
Hmmmm…a sixth starting pitcher? I wonder what they would need a sixth for? Especially a sixth that won’t be happy in the bullpen. Insurance? Or trade for a second baseman? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/34 "2004-02-17T13:24:59Z")
I’m a Mets fan, so I could care less about this trade. In fact the only reason I like this is because the stupid Sox got screwed. Hehe, the curse continues. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/35 "2004-02-17T14:31:31Z")
You know, I’m just kind of depressed right now. I used to be such a huge baseball fan. Every year right around now I would start a forty-day countdown to opening day, check the news on a regular basis, and just generally get excited that my favorite sport was gearing up. And for the first time in years, I felt that way again this year. The American League East race looked like one of the tightest, most balanced, and most potentially exciting of all time, except that the National League Central looked like it was going to be even better. Now, though, I really think I might be through with this sport. See, the thing is, this trade isn’t a crime against humanity. It just makes baseball boring. Sure, the possibility exists that a miracle will happen and the Yankees will somehow fail to win their division, fail to go to the World Series, but it’s so phenomenally unlikely as to be not worth discussing. The idea of commiting my interest to some thousands of games of baseball over the course of the months to come when the ultimate outcome seems more or less foreordained… well, what’s the point? Why bother? ---
**Author:** ![terd\_ferguson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@terd\_ferguson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terd_ferguson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/36 "2004-02-17T18:35:44Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Hmmmm…a sixth starting pitcher? I wonder what they would need a sixth for? Especially a sixth that won’t be happy in the bullpen. > > Insurance? Or trade for a second baseman? I think this is just Boras posturing for a better offer from other teams. However, if they did sign him, it would push Lieber or Contreras to the bullpen. I have read that Lieber may not be ready yet and Contreras is odd. It would also be insurance for when Brown gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/37 "2004-02-17T18:57:37Z")
Btw for all these people bitching about Steinbrenner, they should take a page out of his book and open up the purse strings. You would have thought someone would take a page out of his book by now. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/38 "2004-02-17T20:29:30Z")
Pardon the redundant comment above. The difference between the two offers was 27 million. I’ll wager that A-Rod jersey sales _alone_ will pull in about 10 to 15 million (over the life of his contract), and his total impact will exceed a hell of a lot more then 27 million. The Sox fucked up again. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/39 "2004-02-18T14:41:31Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Pardon the redundant comment above. > > The difference between the two offers was 27 million. I’ll wager that A-Rod jersey sales _alone_ will pull in about 10 to 15 million (over the life of his contract), and his total impact will exceed a hell of a lot more then 27 million. The Sox fucked up again. Whyare you so sure? They already sell out Fenway every year, so they’re not going to get much of a boost from the gate. They own their own cable company, so again, not much of a boost there since they can’t exactly renegotiate a deal and I don’t think they’re going to get a huge increase in viewership. While I do think the Red Sox made a mistake, I don’t think your financial analysis really holds. I do think that the Red Sox could have absorbed the extra payroll quite easily, though. They’re not exactly a struggling team. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518/40 "2004-02-18T15:57:45Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Whyare you so sure? They already sell out Fenway every year, so they’re not going to get much of a boost from the gate. Well at the moment all sorts of things are being discussed. [http://www.savefenwaypark.com/Reconstuct0.html](http://www.savefenwaypark.com/Reconstuct0.html) Expanding the capacity to 40,000 people or adding 500 seats to the green monster to name a few. Even if they don’t expand capacity, they could simply knock the ticket prices up a few bucks. That alone would probably pump 3 or 4 million more into their coffers. > [@](#): > > They own their own cable company, so again, not much of a boost there since they can’t exactly renegotiate a deal and I don’t think they’re going to get a huge increase in viewership. This is not true. In 2002, the Sox signed a 3-year deal with 2 local TV stations (WBZ4 & UPN38) for 26 night games. The rest of the games are aired on the network they own, but that isn’t the point. The point is they’ll be renegotiating a new TV contract in 2 years, and they would have had A-Rod for 7. More eyeballs = more money to squeeze out of the advertisers. Certainly a few more million a year isn’t out of the realm of reason. \*\* > [@](#): > > While I do think the Red Sox made a mistake, I don’t think your financial analysis really holds. I do think that the Red Sox could have absorbed the extra payroll quite easily, though. They’re not exactly a struggling team. Aside from all of the above, it would have been the merchandizing that would have iced the cake. Again, I would not be surprised if they had made 10 or 15 million just off his jersey over the next seven years. I can’t believe they commited a fuckup of that magnitude. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-yankees/229518.md?page=3)