# Damn you J.K. Rowling (potentially) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414 "2006-06-27T23:43:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/101 "2006-06-29T20:02:50Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Of course, we could put a whole other meaning on Ollivander saying “Mmm…yes…thirteen inches, a little on the whippy side…”☹ [/QUOTE] [Definitive proof that J.K Rowling is a dirty DIRTY woman making a fool of us all](http://bash.org/?111338) ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/102 "2006-06-29T21:13:42Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] Did Gandalf die, Frodo, Bilbo? They are magical characters that have lived on in many ways, far beyond that which their author expected. . [/QUOTE] Minor nitpick: Gandalf and Bilbo “went away across the ocean” which in terms of that tale and that mythology does not imply that they retired to Boca. It means they went away and died and never came back. I do agree with what you said, however. I’m not sure Rowling is Pit-worthy in her decision, she IS the mistress of that world and may do as she pleases. It is a rueful situation to love a character and lose it. Is it any less rueful to lose a main character in a novel that never did very well and faded away into obscurity ? Are we due more positive feelings from her culmination just because the series is very popular? I would love to think she will not kill off the big three. Kids do learn that people die, it is a sad part of real life. I hope she leaves the sudden deaths to minor functionaries mentioned in here. Sometimes evil triumphs in very painful fundamental and life-destroying ways over good. If that is what she wants to say at the end, then I won’t vilify her for it. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/103 "2006-06-29T21:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] Minor nitpick: Gandalf and Bilbo “went away across the ocean” which in terms of that tale and that mythology does not imply that they retired to Boca. It means they went away and died and never came back. [/QUOTE] Bilbo, maybe. Gandalf wasn’t subject to natural death, although he may have reverted to being Olorin the Maia once he was tired of his body (which did appear to age extremely slowly, but was still pretty darn spry during the events of the Siege of Gondor). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/104 "2006-06-30T03:48:04Z")
[Mythology/literature geek mode on] The West is traditionally where you go when you die. Egyptians aligned their dead accordingly, I believe Aeneas had to sail westward when he descended to the underworld, etc. Tir nan Og is that way. I think they’re called the Isles of Summer by the… Welsh? Someone like that. It’s the direction of the setting sun, it’s heavily symbolic. In Middle Earth, the Valar and Maiar and the elves come from the West. They have their own great beautiful and marvelous land there. And if you take Eru Iluvatar as a stand-in for God and the Valar/Maiar as his angels, and perhaps the elves as well (there’s a few ways you can look at that) then Valinor, the land where they live, is Heaven. When the elves left Valinor, IIRC they weren’t allowed to come back until their lives were over. It’s Valinor they’re sailing to, the island to the west. The land of no returning. The land where all are eternally young and beautiful and in the prime of their lives, where there is no grief nor suffering nor sickness nor death. In other words, they got into a boat and went to Heaven. For all effective purposes they are dead – they aren’t coming back to Earth – but as in Christian beliefs, life goes on after death and is rather nicer anyway. [End completely irrelevant geekosity] I’d… say something about what I think will be in book 7 but I don’t have anything new to bring to the table. I’m quite certain that Petunia’s parents were Squibs, though, or at least one of them was. I’m pretty sure she knew about wizards before her sister became one. She might even have wanted to be one when she was a girl, but her sister’s ability completely soured it for her. I’d almost think she got the letter and refused it, tore it up, because she hated magic so much… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/105 "2006-06-30T04:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=Little Plastic Ninja] [Mythology/literature geek mode on] In Middle Earth, the Valar and Maiar and the elves come from the West. [/quote] Nuh-uh. The Valar and Maiar came from the timeless halls of Iluvatar, and they built Arda. The elves originated in Cuivienen, _east_ of Middle Earth. Many elves lived without ever setting foot in the West. Remember the Avari, and the Sylvan elves! > [@](#): > > They have their own great beautiful and marvelous land there. And if you take Eru Iluvatar as a stand-in for God and the Valar/Maiar as his angels, and perhaps the elves as well (there’s a few ways you can look at that) then Valinor, the land where they live, is Heaven. Must disagree about elves as angels and Valinor as Heaven. Otherwise things were unwell in Heaven when the Trees were slain, when Finwë was slain, when the Noldor unrighteously slew the Teleri. Valinor was the “Undying Land” because it was the land where the Undying lived. And while it was blessed by their presence, that didn’t make Valinor heaven. > [@](#): > > When the elves left Valinor, IIRC they weren’t allowed to come back until their lives were over. Not true. After the War of Wrath and Morgoth’s downfall, many Noldor returned to the West, to Avallonë. Where they lived long lives. Only Galadriel was forbidden to return, and that was a theme that JRRT wished to re-write, rather having her refuse to return in later notes. > [@](#): > > It’s Valinor they’re sailing to, the island to the west. The land of no returning. The land where all are eternally young and beautiful and in the prime of their lives, where there is no grief nor suffering nor sickness nor death. Sorry. The Undying didn’t die, as that wasn’t their fate. But as time wore on, the powers themselves envied the “Gift of Death” that Eru had given Mankind. Per JRRT anyway. And watching the actions of mortals gave Manwë plenty of grief and sorrow. Meanwhile, the Noldor sang their laments until the ending of the world. > [@](#): > > In other words, they got into a boat and went to Heaven. For all effective purposes they are dead – they aren’t coming back to Earth – but as in Christian beliefs, life goes on after death and is rather nicer anyway. JRRT did write that Bilbo and Frodo would die in Avallonë, and that their spirits would go where the rest of mortal spirits went after death. And that the Valar (save perhaps Manwë and Mandos) knew nothing about what happened to mortals after death. > [@](#): > > [End completely irrelevant geekosity] Irrelevant geekosity is a joy, no reason to end it! But you must hew as near Canon as possible! BTW, who’s this Harold Potter guy everyone keeps going on about? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/106 "2006-06-30T05:09:48Z")
All right, who got out Qadgop and started to play with him? You know the rules - you wind him up, you have to take care of him and put him away when you’re done. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/107 "2006-06-30T07:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Here you have it, the actual ending to the 7th HP book!!! > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by final paragraph of Harry Potter and the Happy Ending > Harry sat upright in his bed, his mind still reeling from the dreams he’d been having. Dreams of a world full of magic and enchantment, good and evil, friends and enemies. For a moment he felt sad that the world of magic had only been a dream. > > “Harry, time to get up for school!” his mother’s voice rang out from downstairs. He flashed back to the saddest part of his dream, his beloved parents dead at the hands of a betrayer. “Coming Mother.” he yelled down to Lily Potter as he sprang from his bed. Rubbing his hands through his hair he went into the bathroom and gazed at himself in the mirror… and as he remembered another point of his dreams, he almost seemed to see it there on his forehead..a lightning bolt shaped scar. There you go, happy ending for everyone. Share and enjoy. 😃 [/QUOTE] No, no you left out the part of the story where Harry stands in front of the mirror and notices that the shower is running. It stops and out steps Bobby Ewing… ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/108 "2006-06-30T14:39:26Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] No, no you left out the part of the story where Harry stands in front of the mirror and notices that the shower is running. It stops and out steps Bobby Ewing… [/QUOTE] And then they all die when they drive their car off a cliff. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/109 "2006-06-30T14:44:26Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] But honestly **Anaamika** , is it really a spoiler to reveal that, yep, 2 main characters are going to die? Have you read the other books? Characters die like flies. Characters suffer monstrous injustice all day every day. Harry’s parents died before he was born. Neville’s parents were tortured into catatonia. Hagrid was kicked out of Hogwarts as a kid. Voldemort running around. Quirrel ripping out a unicorn’s throat and drinking its blood. Sirius spends years in Azkaban. Lupin. Dumbledore. Snape. And on and on and on. The Harry Potter series is DARK. I didn’t need to see a teaser announcement to know that some characters are going to die. And neither did you. It’s a CERTAINTY that there’s going to be some tragedy in the last book. 100% guaranteed, given the tragedies of the earlier books. And this doesn’t mean the books are hopeless! Of course good will triumph, Voldemort will be banished. But evil EXISTS in the HP universe, evil is powerful, evil must be fought, and there’s no guarantee that you’ll win, and even if you win you’ll have to pay a price. And that’s why the HP books are so popular, that’s why they resonate with kids and adults. They’re not great literature, but they’re darn good. And removing the tragedy, removing the danger would remove everything that makes them worthwhile. [/QUOTE] I don’t have a problem with everyone dying, if necessary, provided it’s done well and neatly.. I just don’t want to know and that’s a personal choice. If I am really looking forward to a book/movie I may read all kinds of conjectures and thoughts on it but I’ll never never read a spoiler. It just irks me that that particular phrase was so blatant in a place I couldn’t avoid it. Antinor, the dream thing is terrible! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/110 "2006-07-01T02:34:35Z")
[QUOTE=Smeghead] All right, who got out Qadgop and started to play with him? You know the rules - you wind him up, you have to take care of him and put him away when you’re done. [/QUOTE] I loves me some **QtM** , but this was hysterical! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414/111 "2006-07-04T01:45:25Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] No, no you left out the part of the story where Harry stands in front of the mirror and notices that the shower is running. It stops and out steps Bobby Ewing… [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] And then they all die when they drive their car off a cliff. [/QUOTE] They drive their car off Cliff Barnes? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-j-k-rowling-potentially/362414.md?page=5)