# Damn you, Philip Pullman!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [December 4, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769 "2008-12-04T23:16:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/1 "2008-12-04T23:16:25Z")
So I’ve galloped through _The Golden Compass_, drawn headlong into the worlds you’ve created and the story you’re telling. I’m nearing the end of _The Subtle Knife_, wholly caught up in the tale. I’m reading the part where Lee and Hester are holed up in the ravine, holding off the Imperial soldiers.
Then I turn the page and read:
[spoiler]He said, or thought, “Those poor men didn’t have to come to this, nor did we.”
She said, “We held 'em off. We held out. We’re a-helping Lyra.”
Then she was pressing her little proud broken self against his face, as close as she could get, and then they died.[/spoiler]
And now I’m sitting here, tears streaming down my face, and I can’t stop crying.
---
### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/2 "2008-12-04T23:40:48Z")
Yeah, that’s a rough scene, though at least I handled it better than the scene in the first book where
the little boy is wandering around lost and broken without his daemon.
I’m so glad I didn’t read that book as a child. It would have destroyed me.
---
### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/3 "2008-12-04T23:52:48Z")
Oh, yeh, that was rough indeed. And Roger… ☹
Pullman writes a helluva fine story, but he doesn’t pull his punches when that story demands it.
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### Author:  [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/4 "2008-12-05T00:00:31Z")
Mr. K and I have been listening to the audiobook and just heard that part last night.
It’s not just the fact of their deaths that’s so distressing, it’s the idea of oblivion, brightened up with the suggestion of eternal of hopelessness and despair that make their sacrifice so guldarn cheerful.
Yeah, thanks Mr. Pullman. You hold him, **ETF** and I’ll hit him.
---
### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/5 "2008-12-05T00:04:40Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#):
>
> Mr. K and I have been listening to the audiobook and just heard that part last night.
>
> It’s not just the fact of their deaths that’s so distressing, it’s the idea of oblivion, brightened up with the suggestion of eternal of hopelessness and despair that make their sacrifice so guldarn cheerful.
>
> Yeah, thanks Mr. Pullman. You hold him, **ETF** and I’ll hit him.
Indeed. Indeed.
Especially, for me, those five small words:
…her little proud broken self…
Crap. Can’t see to hold or hit him through a fresh spate of tears.
---
### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/6 "2008-12-05T00:08:22Z")
Strangely, I think the most upsetting part of that for me is that she’s a hare. Something about this great, adventurous man having a hare for a daemon.
Damn. Now I feel all sniffly.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/7 "2008-12-05T00:34:35Z")
Yes! And such a vivid character too.
The whole thing about daemons is utterly fascinating, not least how the children’s change and what final form they take for the adults – and what that reveals about the characters.
I’m thinking, for instance, about Lord Boreal and his snake.
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### Author:  [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/8 "2008-12-05T02:01:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> Yeah, that’s a rough scene, though at least I handled it better than the scene in the first book where
>
> the little boy is wandering around lost and broken without his daemon.
>
> I’m so glad I didn’t read that book as a child. It would have destroyed me.
I lost it when he died and the Gyptians unknowingly gave his dried fish, the only thing he had left to cling to, to the dogs - and Lyra was furious at them, and placed a coin in his mouth with his daemon’s name on it for him to be buried with.
Yeah, I lost it at Lee and Hester’s last stand, too.
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### Author:  [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/9 "2008-12-05T03:56:44Z")
Good God, I should have checked with you guys before I even STARTED that damned series.
I started reading it aloud to my very sensitive, empathetic 8 year old son last year. About 30 pages in, I decided to read ahead. Holy crap!!! :eek: I had to explain to him that we weren’t ready for this book quite yet…
Lyra finding the little boy without his daemon, Marisa’s glee at abducting the children, the knife, poor Roger
Seriously upsetting stuff.
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### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/10 "2008-12-05T04:01:00Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#):
>
> Seriously upsetting stuff.
Yep. Considering I went into hysterics as a kid when the dwarfs shot the horses in _The Last Battle_, I can’t even imagine what my reaction would have been to _The Golden Compass_.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/11 "2008-12-05T04:18:25Z")
I am a big guy, and I’ve read _His Dark Materials_ twice in just the last year.
Both times, when I read the part ETF describes, I completely lost it and had to put the book down to have myself a good cry.
Pullman is one helluva writer.
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### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/12 "2008-12-05T05:05:43Z")
My advice: Stop after the second book. Pretend he never finished the series. _The Amber Spyglass_ does not live up to the promise of the first two volumes.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/13 "2008-12-05T05:21:00Z")
No, no, no! I can’t stop now! I’ve got to know how it all comes out!
Anyway, it’s too late; I’ve already started book three.
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### Author:  [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/14 "2008-12-05T05:22:02Z")
> [@Pochacco](#):
>
> My advice: Stop after the second book. Pretend he never finished the series. _The Amber Spyglass_ does not live up to the promise of the first two volumes.
**Pochacco’s** right. Book three is a complete mess and a waste of time. _Except_ for the wheeled giraffes.
Is it wrong of me to love the wheeled giraffes?
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### Author:  [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/15 "2008-12-05T05:44:45Z")
> [@Pochacco](#):
>
> My advice: Stop after the second book. Pretend he never finished the series. _The Amber Spyglass_ does not live up to the promise of the first two volumes.
That’s exactly what I did. Completely unintentionally too. Weird.
---
### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/16 "2008-12-05T06:01:27Z")
Well, I’m sorry to hear that; but I’m one of those readers who simply has to finish the trilogy.
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### Author:  [@wunderkammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wunderkammer)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/17 "2008-12-05T06:29:58Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#):
>
> Is it wrong of me to love the wheeled giraffes?
I was under the impression that I was loving wheeled _elephants._
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### Author:  [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/18 "2008-12-05T06:50:44Z")
> [@wunderkammer](#):
>
> I was under the impression that I was loving wheeled _elephants._
Well, I’ll be. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Races_and_creatures_in_His_Dark_Materials) says you’re right, **wunderkammer** , and now my last positive illusion has been shattered. Mr. Pullman is probably somewhere tenting his fingers and muttering “excellent.”
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### Author:  [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/19 "2008-12-05T08:02:52Z")
Huh, the third book was my favorite. Of course, I’ll freely admit that much of that had to do with the Wheeled elephants but the fore-and-aft rigged birds were good too.
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### Author:  [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2008, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damn-you-philip-pullman/475769/20 "2008-12-05T09:28:52Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#):
>
> Well, I’m sorry to hear that; but I’m one of those readers who simply has to finish the trilogy.
The last book is unsatisfying, but more because Pullman tries to do too much rather than too little: there’s just too much crammed in there from the first two books in an attempt to resolve everything, and at times it can be sprawling, incoherent or hasty. I’m not as down on it as some readers, and you definitely need to complete the series, but it’s one of the few “epic fantasy trilogies” that actually needed to be _longer._ There was an excellent thread in here a couple of years back analysing the series’ strengths and weaknesses, but don’t search for it until you’ve read all the books.
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