# Damned Vegans/Vegetarians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530 "2002-04-30T19:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![heptapod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@heptapod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heptapod)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/1 "2002-04-30T19:13:14Z")
[A vegan couple in New York City were busted for starving their baby daughter — by denying her breast milk and formula, feeding her only nuts, fruits and vegetables, and allegedly failing to get her medical help for severe malnutrition.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51494,00.html) This is why I hate people who are anti-meat and evangelize it. It doesn’t matter what segment they’re from, the relatively annoying “Oh, I made a vegan meal because I don’t eat meat but I fully expect you to **RESPECT** my wishes when you cook. I don’t care if you don’t like it!” to the people who refrain from feeding meat to their _carnivore_ pets and now there are these hippie lowlifes. It’s just a damned way of eating, not a political statement. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/2 "2002-04-30T19:21:50Z")
Yikes…a moly. the father thought she was getting “chubby”. She’s a fucking YEAR OLD. I just don’t get it. there’s no more rant in me. People are fucked. Let’s all face it together. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/3 "2002-04-30T19:24:39Z")
Oh, this should be good. _Pulls up a lawn chair and waits for **yosemitebabe**._ ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/4 "2002-04-30T19:24:46Z")
They’re not cruel vegans, they’re cruel because they’re fucking clueless. They fed their kid cod liver oil but not breast milk? Exactly where do they think that comes from? Any vegetarian or vegan with a brain in their head would know that. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/5 "2002-04-30T19:27:23Z")
I don’t think this has too much to do with them being vegan/vegitarian and quite a bit to do with them being morons. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/6 "2002-04-30T19:29:19Z")
Perhaps I’m clueless as to the vegan lifestyle, but it would seem to me that the one food on earth that was specifically geared toward consumption by humans would be a mother’s breast milk. I don’t understand why they would withhold that. Even hard-core, lunatic-fringe vegans (in my opinion, anyway) consider placenta to be an acceptable meat, since its creation didn’t involve cruelty to animals. If you’re gonna carry veganism to that extreme and yet deny your child breastmilk, where’s the logic? Side note: They named the child _Ice_? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/7 "2002-04-30T19:39:48Z")
This happened not because the parents are vegans, but because they are morons. There are plenty of stories of children dying because their parents are idiots. If these folks had been meat-eaters, their stupidity would still have wound up killing their kid. “Chore List-clean the kitchen. Just miz bleach in ammonia in a big bucket”. Or “Trust your Father. The circuit breaker is off.” The Great Dalmuti is a fine example of a preachy, vegan. But, after some persuasion even the Great Dalmuti admitted that feeding a cat a vegan diet would be harmful. Dal opted for a dog instead. [Ranting By The Dalmuti](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=111345&highlight=omnivores) ``` Veganism doesn't kill people. Stupidity kills people. ``` ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/8 "2002-04-30T19:46:34Z")
I absolutely agree. I just want to point out two things. 1. I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians. I DO have a lot against morons who harm children and call one year old girls ‘chubby’ 2. Isn’t Cod Liver Oil an animal product? ---
**Author:** ![Anaximenes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e99b99/32.png) [@Anaximenes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaximenes)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/9 "2002-04-30T19:50:46Z")
It’s amazing how bad any position can be made to look when it’s taken to extremes. For example, there’s this extremely obese carnivorous man who eats SPAM for every meal and loves it so much he engages in certain unmentionable sex acts with it. (I love Jerry Springer. Americans at their best! 🆒 ) Do not under-estimate the power of the straw man. Destroy you it can! ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/10 "2002-04-30T20:24:23Z")
> [@](#): > > They’re not cruel vegans, they’re cruel because they’re fucking clueless. > [@](#): > > This happened not because the parents are vegans, but because they are morons. If they were not vegan/vegetarian, would this have happened? But then again, that’s like calling people who kill Abortion doctors or wave those “fags burn in hell” signs at a gay man’s funeral “Christians”. So I can see both sides of it. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/11 "2002-04-30T20:25:32Z")
Regardless of the fact that these two “parents” were Vegans, it amazes me that these two people’s insanity meshed so perfectly that they never questioned what they were doing, together. They are both so far out there that they never realized they were killing their child by inches through their totally mad actions. Crazy, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/12 "2002-04-30T20:35:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Oblong \* > **If they were not vegan/vegetarian, would this have happened?** They fed their baby cod liver oil, which is most assuredly not vegetarian or vegan. Their sanity and morality are in question; their diet merely seems to be a convenient hook to pin this media piece on. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/13 "2002-04-30T20:52:16Z")
[qoute] _Originally posted by Oblong_ **If they were not vegan/vegetarian, would this have happened?** [/quote] Well, I think you’re looking at it from the wrong angle. If they were vegans, but not morons, the kid would have been fine because they would have fed him breast milk and/or vegan baby formula. The kid is lucky to be alive. What a couple of dickheads. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/14 "2002-04-30T20:54:07Z")
And vegetarians are included in this rant why? Learn the fucking difference, people. Last I checked, babies–while needing milk/formula–don’t need meat to live. > [@](#): > > If they were not vegan/vegetarian, would this have happened? People this dumb will inevitably find a way to bring harm to their child… ---
**Author:** ![Calliope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Calliope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calliope)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/15 "2002-04-30T20:59:08Z")
Vegans have no problem with breast milk. It is animal milk they do not consume. Most of the vegans I know breast feed for several years. So this is not a vegan problem, it’s an idiot problem. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/16 "2002-04-30T21:08:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Calliope \* > \*\*Vegans have no problem with breast milk. It is animal milk they do not consume. Most of the vegans I know breast feed for several years. So this is not a vegan problem, it’s an idiot problem. \*\* That’s exactly what I figured. I couldn’t see vegans (true vegans, mind you, not these wastes) having a problem with breast milk. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/17 "2002-04-30T22:48:24Z")
Good old vegans: had a few for friends back in the 70’s and 80’s, who would come to visit but refuse to eat food cooked in my saucepans/frypans etc because they’d previously been used to cook…_shock__horror_…MEAT! My vegan mates were doing it for health reasons (or so they said). You know, they despised chemicals and processing and all of that. Yet they were the most avid DRUG users of the lot. They’d go to a naturopath when they were ill, but happily pumped amphetamines/heroin and coke into their systems at any other time! I just could not figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/18 "2002-05-01T00:11:00Z")
People who follow this diet(such as I) didn’t hurt this child, 2 stupid people who follow the diet did. I’m only a veg, but even I don’t know if I’d put my child on a veg diet, I’d have to look into it, study it a little. All I can do is guess, but I don’t think a vegan would have a problem with feeding breast milk to a child. They usually object to the cow being forced to give its milk for human consumption in milk, cheese form…I think. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/19 "2002-05-01T00:38:00Z")
I dunno, I kind of think Veganism is symptomatic of the problem. Vegans live there lives according to what they wish reality was, not what is. The same thing happens with fundamentalists and you end up with kids dying because medical needs of the, real world are ignored because an irrational belief system is given more credence than reality. You end up with Jonestown, Waco, comet cults and Scientology. Any time you abandon reality you do so at great risk to yourself and those you are responsible for. I still remember one of the great lines I have ever heard. “Vegetarianism is the logical precedent to Breatharianism.” Breatharianism is where you 've trained your digestive system to such a fine degree where you go through life absorbing your nutrients from air around you, and you live in harmony with all of nature, hurting or injuring no living thing in the course of your life. She was smart, witty, attractive, and she absolutely believed it, claimed she knew breatharians and she was well on her way and would probably attain that state within the next year. Was she crazy? I don’t think so. The conclusions on which she operated her life were so completely wrong that her sanity was a moot point. This happened because she allowed irrational beleifs to overrule the evidence of reality. Overruling reality and operating on wishful thinking is always risky business. Now, we all have irrational beleifs and things we’d like to be true. That’s fine. It’s only when we convince ourselves that they’re true that there’s a problem. For example: “I like animals.” so far so good. “I wouldn’t eat my pet dog.” still ok. “I would like to minimize the suffering that my life causes.” OK, this is a preference. I’m not sure suffering is intrinsically bad, but maybe it is. Still ok. “So, I don’t eat meat.” Fine with me. You’re getting a little loopy and flirting with the irrational, but that’s ok. None of my business. “It makes me better. It makes me healthier. It’s wrong to kill things so you shouldn’t eat meat either, or wear fur, or experiment on animals. You’re hurting the earth,…” and all that bullshit. Congratulations! You’ve just crossed the line into irrationality. You suffer from an explanatory gap in your logic. More than a gap, it’s demonstrably wrong. The explanatory gap here is that for some reason suffering and death or causing suffering and death is bad. Most people accept this at face value because they have a very strong personal preference against these things, and understand that most other feeling creatures share this preference. The truth is that suffering and death are neither good nor bad. They are necessary and useful tools of evolution and life itself. But, once you start pretending that personal preferences carry the weight of truth you’re well down the path to irrationality. When you give up that grounding reality there’s really no surprise where it ends. Starving the death a child you love becomes a real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Tsubaki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@Tsubaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tsubaki)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/20 "2002-05-01T00:42:09Z")
I still can’t get over the fact that they fed her nuts. NUTS! If they weren’t vegans, they still COULD have killed her, simply because they were giving a one-year old child nuts. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530.md?page=2)