# Damned Vegans/Vegetarians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530 "2002-04-30T19:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tinkertoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f19dbf/32.png) [@Tinkertoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinkertoy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/61 "2002-05-01T23:45:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, none of them have sufficient muscle mass to make the battles interesting, but it might be good for a few laughs. Don’t count on that. I’ve managed to use my puny vegetarian muscles to kick a little ass in my 43 years on this planet. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/62 "2002-05-01T23:47:05Z")
Cat, Your friend is an ass. And probably represents about .05% of vegetarians/vegans. And to answer your question, NO the part about coming over and inviting themselves into your fridge was NOT abundantly clear, I haven’t met many adults that do that. The people that come to your house don’t seem to have very good manners. Looks like you need some new friends… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/63 "2002-05-01T23:56:32Z")
**Cat** -well, then, that’s different. You were a gracious host, your friends were jackasses. My appologies. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/64 "2002-05-02T04:28:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by heptapod \* > \*\*The original post was not a “question” but stating my opinion in addition to sharing that news item with the Straight Dope Message Board. > > The question about vegetarian parents asking their kids if they want to be vegetarian was just a question. I’m sorry you felt it was confrontational. \*\* The title of this thread is “Damn Vegans/Vegetarians.” By what stretch of whose imagination is that not confrontational? Fuckwad. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/65 "2002-05-02T04:42:20Z")
The article in the link is ridiculously irresponsible. It throws the word “vegan” around and then lists what the parents fed the child with absolutely no reference to the fact that it does not constitute a vegan diet. It allows the uninformed reader to believe that they are reading about what all vegans feed their children. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/66 "2002-05-02T05:18:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by heptapod \* > \*\*The original post was not a “question” but stating my opinion in addition to sharing that news item with the Straight Dope Message Board. > > The question about vegetarian parents asking their kids if they want to be vegetarian was just a question. I’m sorry you felt it was confrontational. \*\* Has excessive bratwurst consumption overgreased your brain? Why would you title your thread “Damned Vegans/Vegetarians” and then pretend to be non-confrontational? If you’d said “Damned Vegan Morons” with these two idiots in mind specifically, I don’t see a problem except with other vegans arguing that what was involved wasn’t “true” veganism (thus firing the first salvo in my eagerly-anticipated internecine conflict). I may as well start a thread named “FUCKING SDMB POSTERS!” and then spend my time explaining “Oh, I didn’t mean YOU guys…” P.S. Omnivore here. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/67 "2002-05-02T05:51:31Z")
Extremists ruin everything. Fundies give good, helpful, tolerant religious folks a bad name. The NRA makes it sound like everyone in America should be armed to the teeth. I don’t want guns outlawed, but I don’t see why people need assualt rifles, either. PETA and the ALF use ridiculous means to further their cause. I eat meat, but I don’t feel the need to convince others to and respect vegetarians/vegans who don’t try and convince or guilt-trip me. I oppose some forms of animal testing (especially cosmetics), but animal testing has provided humans with important medical research. I can identify better with the Humane Society or ASPCA. I’ve had pets all my life and understand the importance of taking care of them. Just keep in mind that it’s really extremism that is our enemy, not vegetarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/68 "2002-05-02T06:17:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I look forward to the day when the extremist vegans/vegetarians start turning on each other in classic internecine warfare, each proclaiming their way is the only way. > > Of course, none of them have sufficient muscle mass to make the battles interesting, but it might be good for a few laughs. I’m a little curious as to what makes a person an extermist vegetarian. I was raised that way, so I’ve never eaten meat. Does that make me an extremist? Or do I have to do something more Xtreme, like skateboarding while actively not eating meat? Also, I’m currently about 6’3" and pushing 200 lbs. Some of it is muscle. Which is not to say I’d be worth a damn in a fight (probably not :)), but good luck trying to push my “scrawny vegetarian ass” around… ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/69 "2002-05-02T07:29:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **Besides, cod liver oil is a laxative/ipecac, isn’t it?** Nope. You’re probably thinking of castor oil, which is a very efficient way to give someone a serious case of the Hershey Squirts - Mussolini’s thugs were known for pouring it down the throats of those they wanted to intimidate. Eeeew. Neither oil is an emetic (substance that causes vomiting), like Ipecac. Vitamin D is about the only thing breastmilk is short on, since through most of human history we’ve gotten enough sunlight to manufacture our own. But modern lifestyles mean babies are spending less time outdoors, and some babies aren’t getting enough vitamin D. Cod liver oil is high in vitamin D, as well as A and some beneficial fatty acids, so a spoonful a day is often beneficial, to babies and others. Norwegian health care workers are brainwashed to recommend a daily spoon for everybody, at least in the winter. However, the stuff tastes **foul**. The flodbabies have been given a spoonful of yummy fruit-flavored liquid vitamins instead. And oh yeah, the only source of cod liver oil is the liver of the codfish, which is indeed an animal. (Who would want to synthesize such horrific stuff?) So much for that “vegan diet”. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/70 "2002-05-02T13:18:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*And Scylla? > > All I can say is who cares? Why do you care what anyones beliefs are? Are they imposing them onto you? > > “the problem occurs when people start to believe their personal preferences are universal truth and act accordingly” the key words you failed to pick up on is PERSONAL PREFERENCES. If they’re not hurting you, who gives a damn? Why is it a “problem?” > I’m vegan because I think animal products are icky. Bottom line. If someone has a problem with it, I believe that problem is due to their own insecurities, not my dietary preferences. \*\* I think it should be pretty self-evident as to why I care. I’ve been pretty clear on the difference between indulging personal preference, and losing touch with reality. The latter concerns me for the reasons I outlayed in my original post. Dead babies, Jonestown, Comet cults, Waco Tx, and breatharians. When somebody goes loopy they often take others with them. Other people get hurt. Even when they just hurt themselves it becomes society’s responsibility to pick up the pieces. As a member of society, that makes it my concern. Sorry you didn’t get it the first time. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/71 "2002-05-02T15:03:16Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Myrr21 \* > \*\* > I’m a little curious as to what makes a person an extermist vegetarian. I was raised that way, so I’ve never eaten meat. Does that make me an extremist? Or do I have to do something more Xtreme, like skateboarding while actively not eating meat?_\* An extremist vegetarian, to my mind, is someone who insists that vegetarianism is the only way and continually pushes their views into your face. **catsix’s** friend is a case in point. My wife and I are unapologetic omnivores; we have friends who are vegetarians for various reasons, and we all accomodate each other’s dietary wishes when we eat together. We have a friend who comes over twice a week to help out with the housework and shopping. (In reason years my wife’s health has deteriorated and she is legally blind due to the effects of her diabetes.) Beth is a vegetarian for (IIRC from a discussion we once had) a combination of ethical & health reasons. She sometimes fixes meals for us, both vegetarian and otherwise, and outside of an occasionally heavy hand with the spices there have been no conflicts between her eating habits and ours. I’ve even started liking the occasional meatless dinners I’ve had.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Macro\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Macro\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macro_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/72 "2002-05-02T19:43:43Z")
Let’s not forget, people: 99% of the parents that kill their children FUCKING EAT MEAT (don’t ask for a cite. Adjust the overwhelming percentage as you see fit). Shit people, there’s no correlation. These fuckwads killed their child. Period. And yes, I’ve been a vegetarian for 12 years, and no, I don’t force the rest of my family to abstain from meat. And btw: Hi Opal! (whatever the hell that means. I often see it on posts, and desperately want to be in the “in” crowd). ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/73 "2002-05-02T20:46:23Z")
Scylla, I haven’t heard of any vegan/vegetarian cults. Or anyone forcing others to become vegan/vegetarians and thus resulting in their deaths. Can you provide any proof of this? If anything it’s usually the other way around, meat eaters trying to force vegs to eat meat. Like Yosemitebabe said, most vegs just want to be left alone. It’s quite obvious the people in the OP weren’t even real vegans and it was the fact that they were fucking INSANE that almost killed their child. Losing touch with reality has nothing to do with someone’s dietary preferences. I’m sorry you didn’t get that the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/74 "2002-05-02T21:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*Scylla, > > I haven’t heard of any vegan/vegetarian cults. \*\* I didn’t say they **were** cults, I said they were **like** cults. Although, I’d argue that breatharianism qualifies for cult status. > [@](#): > > \*\*Or anyone forcing others to become vegan/vegetarians and thus resulting in their deaths. \*\* I guess you really didn’t bother to read the OP and related article, then. Besides, the fact that you haven’t heard about isn’t a counterargument. > [@](#): > > Can you provide any proof of this? The Op link, breatharianism. You want statistics on overzealous vegetarians doing damage to themselves and others, you’ll have to dig them up yourself. > [@](#): > > If anything it’s usually the other way around, meat eaters trying to force vegs to eat meat. Oooh, an anecdotal rejoinder. I’ll file that for what it’s worth. > [@](#): > > It’s quite obvious the people in the OP weren’t even real vegans and it was the fact that they were fucking INSANE that almost killed their child. They weren’t real Vegans? Perhaps they were true Scotsmen? > [@](#): > > \*\*Losing touch with reality has nothing to do with someone’s dietary preferences. \*\* ::snicker:: [sub]anorexia[/sub] ::snicker:: [sub]breatharianism[/sub] ::snicker:: [sub]evangelical veganism[/sub] Many many mental illnesses reflect themselves most clearly in extreme dietary preferences. It’s sure as shit symptomatic. It has a heck of a lot to do with losing touch with reality. What thread have you been reading? ---
**Author:** ![Macro\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Macro\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macro_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/75 "2002-05-02T21:43:23Z")
All you fucking meat-eaters are going out killing people, undoubtedly caused by your ingestion of flesh. Manson, Bundy, Emeril, you’re all the same. You all have the same lust for blood, undoubtedly brought on by your repeated consumption of other animals. You are all fucking nuts. One vegan couple goes and accidentally kills their kids, and you are all up our asses. Ahhhhh… now I’m being as obtuse as Scylla. That feels great! Everyone should try it. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/76 "2002-05-02T21:48:18Z")
Many mental illnesses REFLECT themselves in extreme dietary preferences. They aren’t CAUSED by them. And what thread have YOU been reading, did you miss the part about the Cod Liver Oil? Those people were not even vegans. They were cooks. If a meat eating couple killed their child by malnourishing it, is their omnivouris diet the culprit? Why is there a double standad for vegetarians? Anorexia is a disease about control. Read up on it. Evangical veganism? What about evangical omnivorism? There is a HELL of alot more of the latter. Have those people lost touch with reality? And I would LOVE to know how Veganism/Vegetarianism is like a cult. Please, indulge me. This should be entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/77 "2002-05-02T21:51:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps they were true Scotsmen? _snicker_ ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/78 "2002-05-02T23:13:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by heptapod \* > \*\*Do you vegetarians or vegans ask your kids if they want to follow your way of eating or do you just feed them that way? \*\* When my son is older he can make that decision for himself. For now he eats what we give him, like any other child his age eats what their parents decide. He is very aware of what vegetarianism is, where meat comes from, etc. He asks people all the time if they are vegetarians or meat eaters. Then he tells them that he is a vegetarian. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/79 "2002-05-02T23:13:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > **Those people were not even vegans. They were cooks.** A pretty poor class of cooks, too. Oh… _Kooks_. 😉 Hmmm. [Looking here,](http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/09/01/overweight.child.ap/) I am struck by this quote: > [@](#): > > Anamarie Martinez-Regino, who is 120 pounds and 3 1/2 feet tall, was taken from her parents and put in state custody on August 25. > > Doctors said Anamarie “will surely die” unless she uses a breathing machine when she sleeps, follows a special diet and exercises more – “something which the parents have not been able or willing to do,” a state court affidavit said. > > Martinez, 32, and Anamarie’s father, Miguel Regino, 54, have not been charged with any crime. They defend the care of their only child, who weighed 6 pounds, 13 ounces when she was born in April 1997 but was up to 50 pounds less than a year later. Doctors say she is three times heavier and 50 percent taller than the average 3-year-old. > … > “My imagining of this scenario is not that the parents are trying to get the child to eat all the time, but rather the child has some inherent tendency to gain weight genetically and is being allowed access to the food,” said Dr. Nancy Krebs, a professor of pediatrics at the University of Colorado. “The permissiveness could be harmful.” > > Most cases of obesity are caused by overeating and lack of exercise, and not medical conditions, said Dr. Robert Schwartz, a pediatric endocrinologist at Wake Forest University. (Maybe Dr. Krebs is a breatharian.) Implying that the monstrous parents in the OP are typical vegans is not only stupid, it’s harmful. [Many good parents are already facing coercion to give their children a meat diet, regardless of the health of their children.](http://www.newcenturynutrition.com/public_html/webzine/archives/when_vegetarian.shtml) > [@](#): > > They insisted Shirley strip the clothing from Jeremiah, the 17-month-old son she and James had adopted 8 months earlier. They inspected the child for bruises and then asked if they could look in the refrigerator. Shirley reports that when she said no, and demanded an explanation, it was opened anyway. She was told that their son was being taken into state custody because she and James were not feeding him proper food. The refrigerator search was done to confirm that there was no meat in the house. It was known at CPS that Shirley and James were vegetarians. > > The child was small for his age, but Shirley, who has a degree in early childhood education, had known by the time of adoption that Jeremiah most likely had fetal alcohol effects and would develop slowly. To make sure he was properly fed, she had read about nutrition and prepared a varied diet of vegetables, fruits, legumes and goat’s milk. He especially liked lentils. When she explained this to the CPS agents, their only response was that they were doing their job. It’s been several months since Jeremiah was taken, and all efforts to get him back have failed. When people report stories of neglect and malnourishment taking place in omnivorous households, there is no tendency to extend blame to all omnivorous people. [This woman](http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/09/obese.abuse/) was acquitted of (misdemeanor) abuse charges stemming from the death of her 680-pound daughter. Surely, this girl’s life would have been longer and more livable if she were given a balanced diet from infancy. (Omnivorous or veg.) Yet people don’t jump and down screaming “She wouldn’t have died if her mother didn’t force her carnivorous diet on her!” For good reason. She was a bad nutritionist. The “vegetarian” couple were bad nutritionists. Their children suffered because of it. It’s not a vegetarian/meat-eater argument. It’s common-sense. Feed your children a balanced diet. Myself, I prefer a balanced vegetarian diet. My economic situation lately has been too lean to accomodate a nutritious vegetarian diet, so after ten meatless years, I’ve been eating meat occasionally. When my income is corrected, I’ll go back to a more varied diet, _sans carne_. Most vegetarians are very conscious of what is required for optimal health-- it’s just that, as in every other subject, the ignorant folks tend to be the loudest. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530/80 "2002-05-02T23:23:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Testy \* > \*\*A confirmed carnivore checking in here, just to make sure it isn’t a persistant flashback; but did I read that right about vegans/veggies eating placenta? As in afterbirth? > > Jesus H. Christ that’s disgusting! > > I’ve eaten just about everything, including snakes and several species of bug but placenta? Ain’t no way! > Testy. \*\* Eating placenta has nothing to do with vegetarianism or veganism. Some people out there eat placenta for spiritual reasons, others for whatever reasons… and among that small group of people a omnivores and veggies alike. I find it gross, as most other people do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damned-vegans-vegetarians/106530.md?page=5)