# Dan Savage says "tranny", college campus goes nuts **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 3, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903 "2014-06-03T07:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/41 "2014-06-04T16:09:36Z")
From what I gather, Savage was discussing the word “tranny,” not directing it at anybody. He was recommending his audience not to recoil from the word, because that gives power to its negativity. Hex did the exact opposite, ironically demonstrating Savage’s point. Moreover, the petition was probably phrased something like “Sign here if you think the T word is bad,” and then presented as a demand for apology. This just shows you how people will react to a certain key word without considering the context at all. Outrage has to be visceral, not reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/42 "2014-06-04T16:17:15Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > However, not being trans, Dan had no right to use it. No N-word privilege, so to speak. He should’ve fucking known better. You’ve missed entire point of the discussion. Perhaps just as important, I’m deeply uncomfortable with the idea of awarding people the right or the privilege to use certain words and denying it to everybody else. It’s hard to imagine anything more arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/43 "2014-06-04T16:25:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Can I speak for my community and insist that we not be referred to as cisgendered? In fact, we should stop using the c-neologism altogether. No, because you are speaking from a position of cisgender privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/44 "2014-06-04T16:37:27Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Uhh, okay. While I’m not disagreeing with your point, linking to a post on this board isn’t really a credit to your argument. “There’s plenty of information out there about trans issues like a thread on this message board that nobody fucking reads!” I dunno, if you wanted to point out there’s plenty of good literature on the subject, maybe something with more than ten readers might have been good. I think its a pretty safe assumption that the guy she was responding to reads the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/45 "2014-06-04T17:12:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, because you are speaking from a position of cisgender privilege. It does look like circular logic… I mainly use cisgender in the terms of academic and online discussions, because it’s grammatically easier than saying “people who are not transgender.” It’s also only vanishingly rarely used in an offensive context.\* I disagree that it’s offensive to use towards people who are not cisgender, but if I’m talking to someone and they ask me not to use it, I stop. - Yes I can search and find plenty of loudmouths saying “die cis scum” etc., but that is an exception. I can search and find more people claiming to be honest-to-goodness werewolves. Nuttery and assholery exist everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/46 "2014-06-04T17:51:31Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > - Yes I can search and find plenty of loudmouths saying “die cis scum” etc., but that is an exception… I believe the appropriate slur is [cishet shitlord](http://terminallance.com/2014/04/22/terminal-lance-317-the-social-network-iv/). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/47 "2014-06-04T23:20:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think its a pretty safe assumption that the guy she was responding to reads the SDMB. Heh, very funny, but the complaint was there’s very little out there promoting understanding of trans people and trans issues, and linking to a post on this board doesn’t address that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/48 "2014-06-05T01:43:29Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > cishet shitlord 5 times fast ---
**Author:** ![SantaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@SantaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SantaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/49 "2014-06-05T03:00:54Z")
This has been hot off the presses since a very publicized fight involving RuPaul and a couple of strident bloggers on opposite sides of the issue I prefer this summary: [http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/trans-community-debates-middle-ground/](http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/trans-community-debates-middle-ground/) Basically two different sexual minorities have totally different life experiences around the word. > [@](#): > > What drives so much of this is hurt. Molloy’s hurt over seeing Addams defend what she saw as a hurtful portrayal of a trans woman and siding against trans women fighting for change. Addams is hurt over being made a target by trans women, her own attempts to help being vilified, and feeling misgendered. Supporters on all sides reacted to the hurt of their own isolation, having their legitimacy as trans women being questioned, of being confronted with their own capacity to hurt others. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/50 "2014-06-05T03:29:31Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Heh, very funny, but the complaint was there’s very little out there promoting understanding of trans people and trans issues, and linking to a post on this board doesn’t address that. There were links within the thread. I didn’t link to anything specific because the original complaint was general. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/51 "2014-06-05T04:19:46Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > It does look like circular logic… Whoosh? I donno, I’m guessing that both **Bricker** and the post he was responding to were in jest. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/52 "2014-06-05T04:51:07Z")
I dislike the term cisgender. It just reeks of upper class academic reverse snobbery. "I am so privileged and cisgender, I know that, but don’t hates me for it!’ Bleh. “Straight” will do fine. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/53 "2014-06-05T05:06:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I dislike the term cisgender. It just reeks of upper class academic reverse snobbery. "I am so privileged and cisgender, I know that, but don’t hates me for it!’ > > Bleh. “Straight” will do fine. Except that it won’t, because it has a completely different meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/54 "2014-06-05T05:27:32Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I dislike the term cisgender. It just reeks of upper class academic reverse snobbery. "I am so privileged and cisgender, I know that, but don’t hates me for it!’ > > Bleh. “Straight” will do fine. If you think “straight” has any direct connection with gender identity, you may not be as informed as you believe you are. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/55 "2014-06-05T05:28:33Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Whoosh? > > I donno, I’m guessing that both **Bricker** and the post he was responding to were in jest. Yes, that was how I read it. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/56 "2014-06-05T07:13:32Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > cishet Gesundheit! ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/57 "2014-06-05T22:49:49Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > If you think “straight” has any direct connection with gender identity, you may not be as informed as you believe you are. Which is probably why I kinda though I should have used the word transgendered instead in my comment (although obviously I am not going to tell YOU what you should call yourself). I keep forgetting (as I had meant to in the past). Not like I am going to make a difference. I’m curious though - and somewhat surprised that you prefer transsexual. I don’t know you that well, but my understanding was that you weren’t only a transsexual woman, bought also a fairly big advocate/volunteer (I think I remember reading you helped other transgendered make their transition (too man “tran” words) by lending moral support and accompanying them when they first go out in public). So I figured you’ve put tons of thought into this versus me who knows very little. So back on topic (which really isn’t the original topic). I actually know two transgendered people (one I knew VERY well, but we lost touch). She actually was the first person that explained to me what the deal was. I consider myself fairly enlightened and open minded, but I had always assumed that “guys” who dressed up as girls were gay. It wasn’t until we had this conversation where it clicked for me: Her: “I just feel so alone, I will never find someone to love me” Me: “What do you mean - you just told me you had two different guys that were really into having sex with you and obviously enjoyed your company?” Her: (and she wasn’t saying this in a mean way - she totally opened my eyes to something I didn’t even understand existed - the “!” indicates passion - not anger) “You don’t get it! These guys just were dating me cause they want a freak! The want someone that looks like a girl that has a cock! I don’t want that! I just want a NORMAL straight guy who loves me for who I feel I am - a straight woman!” Me: “Oh - I get it now!” I am dense sometimes. Up until that time - I had assumed he (as I saw him before) was gay and this was some of fetish for “him”. I didn’t get why “he” wanted to be called “she” and use a female name - but hey I went along cause - well why not. Then it all made sense. We actually worked together for a while - in a very male occupation - 100% of the field workforce was men that drove trucks to various calls. I was somewhat surprised and delighted that not one single person at our job gave her a hard time when she bravely showed up one day dressed as a woman. There were certainly some surprised looks and questions - and a little bit of giggling, but no one was the least but mean. I don’t think most understood, but they were like “hey whatever makes ‘him’ happy”. Even our boss was like “well that took a lot of balls (having the courage to show up dressed as a woman) - ‘he’ does a great job so I don’t care what makeup he uses or wig he wears - I don’t know what to say if customers complain - but I’ll just worry about that when it comes up” This was like a little over 10 years ago - anyway my point was two fold - one sometimes people can pleasantly surprise you (I thought their reaction was pretty good considering the awareness at the time). Two, it was fairly obvious to me - that most of them thought the same way I originally did - that this was a gay guy that liked to play dress up. I still notice this - and obviously you have 1 billion times more experience than I do - so I am assuming this isn’t news to you. So sorry to drone on, but my question is basically - would you mind sharing why you prefer transexual vs transgender? Your answer seemed to suggest something along the lines of it being a post-op vs pre-op thing, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth. I am not at all suggesting that your word is “wrong” - I just would have guessed that people in the transgendered/transexual community would have prefered “gender” vs “sexual” as it might help to remove some of the misunderstanding about this being a gay/straight issue. Or maybe my understanding of what it means to be transexual is flawed. I was assuming based on the two data points I have (and stuff I have casually run across - and from listening to Dan Savage) that it is a person who feels they are “trapped” in the other genders body. They can be gay or straight - or even asexual, but a transgendered female (someone born with a penis) might be gay, but if she was - she would prefer to have sex with a female. And I apologize if the question is too personal - you won’t hurt my feeling if you say NOYB. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/58 "2014-06-06T01:22:47Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > I’m curious though - and somewhat surprised that you prefer transsexual. I don’t know you that well, but my understanding was that you weren’t only a transsexual woman, bought also a fairly big advocate/volunteer (I think I remember reading you helped other transgendered make their transition (too man “tran” words) by lending moral support and accompanying them when they first go out in public). So I figured you’ve put tons of thought into this versus me who knows very little. I am a community and political activist, and associate of a medical institute here, as well as being a transsexual woman with an intersex hormone disorder. > [@](#): > > I am dense sometimes. Up until that time - I had assumed he (as I saw him before) was gay and this was some of fetish for “him”. I didn’t get why “he” wanted to be called “she” and use a female name - but hey I went along cause - well why not. Then it all made sense. It sounds like you did get it. You did well. > [@](#): > > So sorry to drone on, but my question is basically - would you mind sharing why you prefer transexual vs transgender? Your answer seemed to suggest something along the lines of it being a post-op vs pre-op thing, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth. I am not at all suggesting that your word is “wrong” - I just would have guessed that people in the transgendered/transexual community would have prefered “gender” vs “sexual” as it might help to remove some of the misunderstanding about this being a gay/straight issue. Because “transgender” has been grabbed by the crossdressing, drag queen, transvestite, and other communities. These folks are almost always genetic males who identify solely as male. They work and play and live and love as a male, and only try to act female for a dinner, a night on the town, a stage performance, etc. They don’t have to face the jeers of their co-workers, the taunts on the bus, the funny looks, the disgusted looks, the people coming up to them at random to tell them how they will burn in hell. They also are \*usually \*not the ones beaten, raped, or murdered. When they go home at night, the dress goes in the closet, the makeup and wig come off, and they can fit in - submerge - no big deal. They aren’t the ones who will be fired for being a “freak”, they aren’t the ones who will be sniggered at during job interviews. They (normally) aren’t the ones whose spouse will desert them. Crossdressers are nice people. Drag queens are nice people. I respect them and their values. But they aren’t transsexuals. We live in an entirely different world of serious risks and serious consequences, face staggering unemployment and divorce rates, often have trouble finding a relationship, etc. All that aside, even in a perfect situation they aren’t the ones driven by gender dysphoria - one of the most crippling things one can have - to chemically and surgically transform their bodies. In short, I’m not them, and they’re not me. And although I repeat I have many crossdressing friends…well, I’ll say what Victoria, a drag queen I know well, said to me a couple of weeks ago: “thank GOD I’m not a transsexual. I couldn’t survive what you ladies have to go through. I thank God every day I’m just a gay man drag queen.” ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/59 "2014-06-06T02:23:52Z")
I’m [having flashbacks](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/11/15/on-glitter-transphobia-and-hate-speech) to three years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903/60 "2014-06-06T12:40:11Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > If you think “straight” has any direct connection with gender identity, you may not be as informed as you believe you are. If a group of people want to self identify as “straight-gendered,” would it really be appropriate for another group to say “no, that just won’t do, not science-y enough”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savage-says-tranny-college-campus-goes-nuts/689903.md?page=4)