# Dan Savage's "We can learn to ignore the bullsh!t in the Bible about gay people..." incident **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588 "2012-05-02T00:35:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/101 "2012-05-02T17:15:04Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Thank you, you make my point. So Cor 9-10 are only if one hasnt asked for forgiveness. Yes, agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/102 "2012-05-02T17:16:23Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Dunno what this has to do with anything, but then again I’m still trying to figure out where got the notion that the exhortation to slaves to obey their masters is limited to cases where the civil law supports the institution (or maybe it’s just limited to cases where the masters put sugar on the slaves’ porridge). If there is no such thing as a slave, then to whom does the passage apply? You wouldn’t contend that it applied to a “slave to fashion” or a “slave to the latest trends” or a “wage slave,” would you? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/103 "2012-05-02T17:22:19Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > For that matter, I don’t see much concern about [rare juicy steaks](http://bible.cc/acts/15-29.htm). > [@](#): > > Liquid in Package > Many people think the red liquid in packaged fresh beef is blood. However, blood is removed from beef during slaughter and only a small amount remains within the muscle tissue. Since beef is about 3/4 water, this natural moisture combined with protein is the source of the liquid in the package. [http://www.fsis.usda.gov/fact\_sheets/Beef\_from\_Farm\_to\_Table/index.asp](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/fact_sheets/Beef_from_Farm_to_Table/index.asp) Can you explain what you believe the potential problem is with rare juicy steaks, please? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/104 "2012-05-02T17:54:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Absolutely. > > Now, let’s talk about the person who quotes I Corinthians 6:9 for support of the proposition that homosexuality is a sin. I am glad we’ve reached agreement on the OT. As for a person who quotes Corinthians, well let’s see. I might ask them if they find greed, drinking, anal sex or adultery to be as morally repugnant. Seeing as they’re listed all together, and all. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/105 "2012-05-02T17:55:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If there is no such thing as a slave, then to whom does the passage apply? So, in your terminology, “illegal” and “nonexistent” are synonyms. That helps clarify things (well, not really, but at least it gives us an alternate set of postulates, a la non-Euclidean geometry, from which to proceed). Legalistically, I suppose that the doctrine that it is actually impossible to hold someone as a “slave” in jurisdictions that do not legally recognize slavery would be useful for an accused “slaver” who wishes to file a defamation lawsuit against one of these activists who presumed to accuse him of something he did not, and indeed could not possibly, do. > [@](#): > > blood is removed from beef during slaughter and only a small amount remains within the muscle tissue So, if it’s a “small amount”, one is not required to actually cook the meat sufficiently to avoid the sin of blood consumption altogether. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/106 "2012-05-02T18:06:53Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > So, if it’s a “small amount”, one is not required to actually cook the meat sufficiently to avoid the sin of blood consumption altogether. Gotcha. Correct. There is no way to remove every single red blood cell from meat. The eating of meat is clearly permitted. QED. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/107 "2012-05-02T18:12:41Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I am glad we’ve reached agreement on the OT. > > As for a person who quotes Corinthians, well let’s see. I might ask them if they find greed, drinking, anal sex or adultery to be as morally repugnant. Seeing as they’re listed all together, and all. But that’s not quite what it says. You’re well within your rights to ask them about the greedy, anal sex, and adultery, and frankly I would expect such a person to answer that he finds all of those sinful, too. But you said “drinking” and I think a more correct translation is “drunkard.” Surely you’ll concede one may drink without being a drunkard. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/108 "2012-05-02T18:13:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Correct. There is no way to remove every single red blood cell from meat. The eating of meat is clearly permitted. QED. I’d say that this is surely a grey area, but that would be more medium done than rare. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/109 "2012-05-02T18:17:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But that’s not quite what it says. You’re well within your rights to ask them about the greedy, anal sex, and adultery, and frankly I would expect such a person to answer that he finds all of those sinful, too. > > But you said “drinking” and I think a more correct translation is “drunkard.” Surely you’ll concede one may drink without being a drunkard. So for booze, there’s a sliding scale of morality? Does that apply to sodomy as well? I mean, how many inches till I’m hellbound? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/110 "2012-05-02T18:26:14Z")
What about wearing expensive clothes and jewellery Bricker? > [@dngnb8](#): > > The Bible is a complete work, not a snippet. Actually, Jesus does not claim anywhere to be the last prophet sent to Earth (not even the last before the second coming). I’ve mistakenly assumed as such and was corrected by a Muslim or a Mormon, I think. Also, it’s not the first time Dan Savage has used the turn of phrase “bullshit in the Bible”, nor is it the only time in front of high school students. I’ve seen it in the videos he uploads to youtube… All the google hits are from the past few days though, so I can’t be bothered finding his previous uses of the term. Btw, I think he’s “reclaiming” gay slurs or something. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/111 "2012-05-02T18:28:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Correct. There is no way to remove every single red blood cell from meat. Sure there is. There aren’t any residual red blood cells in well-done meat. (The fact that this is accomplished by transformation rather than removal is irrelevant; if transformation didn’t suffice to convert “blood” into “not-blood”, it _would_ be forbidden to eat anything given the fact that almost any bit of organic matter was part of some critter’s blood at some point.) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/112 "2012-05-02T18:34:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re well within your rights to ask them about the greedy, anal sex, and adultery, and frankly I would expect such a person to answer that he finds all of those sinful, too. Really? Considering “greed” a sin is a bit problematic for conservatives – Gordon Gekko’s “greed is good” line from _Wall Street_ is, when you get right down to it, simply a blunt summation of Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” concept. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/113 "2012-05-02T18:45:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He was editor in chief of a weekly newspaper for six years and he’s been a published advice columnist for 20 years. Sorry, but he’s a journalist by any standard- and I have to point out the irony of making an incorrect claim that someone is not a journalist. Google would have set you straight. He’s not a reporter, but he’s got more than enough experience to justify inviting him to speak to high school journalists. That’s especially true because his advocacy has focused on high-school age kids. > This is one of the most confusing and absurd things I have ever read. His strongest advocacy has been encouraging kids who are bullied that they shouldn’t kill themselves because the bullying will end. He was an sex advice columnist, that is not journalism. If he really was a journalist he would know that it is unethical to bring publicity to suicides. From thee DART center’s latest guide to covering suicides in the press."(1) More than 50 research studies worldwide have found that certain types of news coverage can increase the likelihood of suicide in vulnerable individuals. The magnitude of the increase is related to the amount, duration and prominence of coverage. (2) Risk of additional suicides increases when the story explicitly describes the suicide method, uses dramatic/graphic headlines or images, and repeated/extensive coverage sensationalizes or glamorizes a death. " Telling people at risk for suicides that alot of people just like them have killed themselves recently is the exact wrong message to send. If he does not know this and he really is a journalist he is irresponsible to the point of negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/114 "2012-05-02T18:47:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > He was an sex advice columnist, that is not journalism. That’s debatable, and he was also the editor in chief of a newspaper for six years. By any standard you want to make up, he has journalistic experience and there’s nothing wrong with having him address an audience of high school journalists. > [@](#): > > If he really was a journalist he would know that it is unethical to bring publicity to suicides. What suicides has he publicized? _He started an anti-suicide campaign._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/115 "2012-05-02T18:50:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But that’s not quite what it says. You’re well within your rights to ask them about the greedy, anal sex, and adultery, and frankly I would expect such a person to answer that he finds all of those sinful, too. Such a person may _say_ he finds all those sinful, but he’s not joining campaigns to make adultery illegal, or remarriage after a no-fault divorce unconstitutional. He’s not trying to prevent the greedy from adopting children in any way I can see. Dan Savage is entirely correct that vast majority of people pointing to a biblical basis for their animus towards homosexuality are conveniently ignoring plenty of other sins. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/116 "2012-05-02T19:06:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s debatable, and he was also the editor in chief of a newspaper for six years. By any standard you want to make up, he has journalistic experience and there’s nothing wrong with having him address an audience of high school journalists. > What suicides has he publicized? _He started an anti-suicide campaign._ As has been mentioned before this is not the first time he has attacked religous people, that is his schtick. There are plenty of real journalists around so they did not have to bring this clown in to talk to the kids. The “It gets better campaign” has been on youtube and facebook, they produce thousands of videos trying to discourage youths from commiting suicide. It was started in response to the suicides of some gay youths. They have received lots of press coverage and publicity. It was probably started out of altruistic intentions but intentions are not what matter, results are what matter. It is a well known fact that there is a suicide contagion that results from press coverage of suicides. The more publicity “It gets better” generates the more at risk youths will hear about the “epidemic” of gay youth suicide. This is true no matter whether they hear about it on youtube or read about it in a newspaper. Media coverage of suicides makes people more likely to commit suicide. Thousands of videos on youtube are media coverage. They are a cause of what they are trying to prevent. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/117 "2012-05-02T19:09:52Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > What about wearing expensive clothes and jewellery Bricker? > > Actually, Jesus does not claim anywhere to be the last prophet sent to Earth (not even the last before the second coming). I’ve mistakenly assumed as such and was corrected by a Muslim or a Mormon, I think. > > Also, it’s not the first time Dan Savage has used the turn of phrase “bullshit in the Bible”, nor is it the only time in front of high school students. I’ve seen it in the videos he uploads to youtube… All the google hits are from the past few days though, so I can’t be bothered finding his previous uses of the term. Btw, I think he’s “reclaiming” gay slurs or something. Did you quote the correct person? My statement you quoted there refers to selecting snipptets of scripture. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/118 "2012-05-02T19:10:48Z")
A “well known fact”? According to who? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/119 "2012-05-02T19:13:20Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The “It gets better campaign” has been on youtube and facebook, they produce thousands of videos trying to discourage youths from commiting suicide. It was started in response to the suicides of some gay youths. They have received lots of press coverage and publicity. It was probably started out of altruistic intentions but intentions are not what matter, results are what matter. It is a well known fact that there is a suicide contagion that results from press coverage of suicides. The more publicity “It gets better” generates the more at risk youths will hear about the “epidemic” of gay youth suicide. This is true no matter whether they hear about it on youtube or read about it in a newspaper. Media coverage of suicides makes people more likely to commit suicide. Thousands of videos on youtube are media coverage. They are a cause of what they are trying to prevent. Erm…could you please provide a cite to support your contention that this campaign has led to increased suicide rates. And do you have any idea how many attempts it took to right a GD suitable reply to your claim? Because honestly, it’s been hard. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588/120 "2012-05-02T19:15:10Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > As has been mentioned before this is not the first time he has attacked religous people, that is his schtick. There are plenty of real journalists around so they did not have to bring this clown in to talk to the kids. Please put down the goalposts. I realize he’s not the only person they could have called, but he _is_ a journalist and not an indefensible choice as a speaker. If you want to argue he’s not a good journalist, you’re welcome to it. > [@](#): > > The “It gets better campaign” has been on youtube and facebook, they produce thousands of videos trying to discourage youths from commiting suicide. It was started in response to the suicides of some gay youths. I’m well aware. > [@](#): > > The more publicity “It gets better” generates the more at risk youths will hear about the “epidemic” of gay youth suicide. Yes, that’s the general idea. I understand your argument, but with regard to “It Gets Better” - it was started in response to suicides, as you said yourself. The problem already existed and was known to be serious. I don’t think it has publicized any specific suicides, and I’m dubious of the conclusion you’re drawing. I’d seen TV ads and other statistics for years that pointed out gay kids were much more likely to committ suicide than their straight peers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dan-savages-we-can-learn-to-ignore-the-bullsh-t-in-the-bible-about-gay-people-incident/620588.md?page=7)