# Dancing on the grave of health care "reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487 "2010-02-03T04:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/401 "2010-02-24T21:43:04Z")
FI–if he passed this bullshit, that would be the wild party EL–I don’t think a balanced budget is a goal to be striven for for its own sake. I’m much more interested in what the government does. How that gets paid for is a separate issue. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/402 "2010-02-24T21:44:15Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > I’m pissed at the R’s and the GOP. Uh… the Rs _are_ the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/403 "2010-02-24T21:46:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t think a balanced budget is a goal to be striven for for its own sake. Is \*that \*what a highly paid tax attorney advises his clients? 😃 Oh, right, how would \*you \*know? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/404 "2010-02-24T21:56:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Uh… the Rs _are_ the GOP. LOl- well, I’m really not all that bright, but I do know that. Seems these days you have to separate everyone and everything. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/405 "2010-02-24T21:59:28Z")
“R”, me hearties! R! R! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/406 "2010-02-24T22:15:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is \*that \*what a highly paid tax attorney advises his clients? 😃 > > Oh, right, how would \*you \*know? In other words, you got nothin’, so here’s an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/407 "2010-02-24T22:34:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > In other words, you got nothin’, so here’s an insult. Right out of your playbook. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/408 "2010-02-24T23:02:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Right out of your playbook. Nope. I’ve got something AND I insult. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/409 "2010-02-25T00:18:11Z")
If only the ensuing debate would be as [exciting as this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfMWjHCkM). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/410 "2010-02-25T00:19:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > FI–if he passed this bullshit, that would be the wild party > > EL–I don’t think a balanced budget is a goal to be striven for for its own sake. I’m much more interested in what the government does. How that gets paid for is a separate issue. So you’re more concerned that the government may help people who are currently in need, not that it would end up being too costly. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/411 "2010-02-25T02:06:36Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So you’re more concerned that the government may help people who are currently in need, not that it would end up being too costly. That’s correct. I don’t think that “helping people that are currently in need” in the abstract is something the government should be involved with. That’s what charity is for. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/412 "2010-02-25T02:41:00Z")
I think, in the abstract, if there were a magic pixie dust that would allow us to cover everyone with the same excellent care, it would bother you that your lessers were receiving the same care as you. They should suffer for their faults. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/413 "2010-02-25T03:00:06Z")
Le sigh. This was covered in the GD thread I started called “why the idea that fiscal conservatives hate poor people?” You are totally wrong. I don’t want “my lessers” to suffer. I just have very strong ideas about the proper role of government. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/414 "2010-02-25T03:07:29Z")
One minute of needless human suffering outweighs all the abstract political philosophy you have, or ever will have. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/415 "2010-02-25T03:10:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Le sigh. This was covered in the GD thread I started called “why the idea that fiscal conservatives hate poor people?” > > You are totally wrong. I don’t want “my lessers” to suffer. I just have very strong ideas about the proper role of government. You have very strong \*stupid \*ideas about the role of government. Though, in fairness I imagine you have stupid ideas about almost everything. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/416 "2010-02-25T03:12:33Z")
My brother has brain cancer. He is getting radiation and chemo. The insurance companies have rejected claims over and over. He worked for the Pharm industry.Luckily, his wife and son are helping him. They re -submit forms endlessly. Then they get paid. But if he were alone, he would be getting ripped off. He is too weak to fight them. He called me Sun. and had to stop because he was too weak to hang on to the phone. He could not have summoned up the energy to fight them. I wonder how often the insurance companies escape paying what they are contracted to, with that move. Yep, this is a fine system if you are a selfish heartless butthole who does not care about the hell others go through. If you think they should not pay for the services they are contracted for, it is great. It is a broken system and needs to be shitcanned… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/417 "2010-02-25T03:40:21Z")
Rover you operate under the delusion that it won’t happen to you. My brother is a professional. he has his own company and works and lives in New York, City. He has been in the Pharm business for over 30 years. he has paid a fortune for insurance. His wife is an exec in a jewelry company. They have top flight insurance. He has brain cancer. He is getting chemo and radiation. He has had many doctor and hospital visits the last 3 months. He has had many tests. The insurance company routinely refuses to pay . His wife or son have to resubmit the claims and call the insurance company until they reach someone who can accept the paperwork. I talked to him Sunday and after a couple minutes, he was too weak to hang on to the phone. If he were alone, he would not have had the energy to fight the insurance companies. They would have gotten away with cheating him. I suppose this is a system that pleases you. But ,if you think it will be different for you when you need them, you are kidding yourself. The system is broken. The repubs said it during the election. The dems say it now. It is broken. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/418 "2010-02-25T03:48:22Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The system is broken. The repubs said it during the election. The dems say it now. It is broken. The remedy is free-market competition. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/419 "2010-02-25T03:55:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The remedy is free-market competition. Do you mean _state lines_? What will keep insurance companies from moving to the state with the fewest regulations? Do you mean getting rid of the anti-trust immunity? Because that is a good idea. It won’t solve any of the problems in the HC industry, but it’s a good idea to control costs. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/420 "2010-02-25T03:56:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Le sigh. This was covered in the GD thread I started called “why the idea that fiscal conservatives hate poor people?” > > You are totally wrong. I don’t want “my lessers” to suffer. I just have very strong ideas about the proper role of government. No, I get it. There certainly is a valid philosophical position one can hold where one can feel as though attempting to solve certain issues through the use of government power is counterproductive or unfair. I hold it on a lot of issues. But I’ve come to realize that a lot of people haven’t come to this position due to an analysis of the utility of the position, and what will provide the greatest benefit or fairness. Rather, they’re dicks, and they latch onto the philosophy in order to justify their dickness. They either say “I’ve got mine, fuck you” or even are actively bothered by the idea that lesser people, who aren’t as smart and responsible or whatever than them wouldn’t suffer for their perceived bad choices. For some of those people, as I said - if you could magically provide an unlimited amount of health care, and everyone could get what they needed, would actually be bothered because they like to see as inferior suffer. To give an example, I’m pretty sure **Carol Stream** fits this description. I can’t say for sure whether this describes you, but given the anger you express over the issue, and the glee you express when you find out something intended to alleviate suffering has failed (even if you think the proposals are wrong, decent people can realize that there still is a lot wrong with the status quo), it strikes me that it may. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=22)