# Dancing on the grave of health care "reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487 "2010-02-03T04:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/721 "2010-03-05T15:04:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It means that we are borrowing money and spending it on health care. This increases demand. How does enacting a law or borrowing money increase the demand for health care? Will there suddenly be more sick people? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/722 "2010-03-05T15:19:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not unless you are frightened by the fact that Obamacare does not do any of the things it needs to do - it does not cover everyone, it does not address the root causes of health care inflation, and it does, in fact, increase the deficit - directly in contradiction to the promise Obama made several times. Well, dear **Shodan** , perhaps _you_ have a plan which will address the root cause of health care inflation - the shortage of qualified physicians and nurses - within 10 years. I suspect, however, that you don’t. Instead, you’ll scream “tort reform!”, and hope nobody points out that even if we eliminated medical malpractice costs and other healthcare-related litigation costs _completely_ we’d cut about 1% out of our total healthcare spending. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/723 "2010-03-08T13:20:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, dear **Shodan** , perhaps _you_ have a plan which will address the root cause of health care inflation - the shortage of qualified physicians and nurses - within 10 years. _The_ root cause? Do you have a cite showing that the only cause of health care inflation is a shortage of caregivers? > [@](#): > > I suspect, however, that you don’t. Instead, you’ll scream “tort reform!”, and hope nobody points out that even if we eliminated medical malpractice costs and other healthcare-related litigation costs _completely_ we’d cut about 1% out of our total healthcare spending. So, instead of reducing costs and addressing one of the root causes, you would prefer simply to make the problem worse. Ideology trumps rationality again. _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/724 "2010-03-08T13:23:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, instead of reducing costs and addressing one of the root causes, you would prefer simply to make the problem worse. \*A \*root cause? Do you have a cite showing that a significant cause of health care inflation is malpractice awards? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/725 "2010-03-08T14:00:51Z")
**Shodan** – nice use of selective quoting on arguing that the deficit will increase with Obamacare. While you quote a cost estimate on the House bill, let’s take a look at what CBO says about the Senate bill, which as we all know is the real game in town. > [@](#): > > According to CBO and JCT’s assessment, enacting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act with the manager’s amendment would result in a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $132 billion over the 2010–2019 period (see Table 1). In the subsequent decade, the collective effect of its provisions would probably be continued reductions in federal budget deficits if all of the provisions continued to be fully implemented. [Link.](http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10868/12-19-Reid_Letter_Managers_Correction_Noted.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/726 "2010-03-08T15:12:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Shodan** – nice use of selective quoting on arguing that the deficit will increase with Obamacare. While you quote a cost estimate on the House bill, let’s take a look at what CBO says about the Senate bill, which as we all know is the real game in town. > > [Link.](http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10868/12-19-Reid_Letter_Managers_Correction_Noted.pdf) Unless Congress fails to make the cuts they haven’t made for the last seven years. They won’t, which we also “all know”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/727 "2010-03-08T17:09:28Z")
Ah, yes, I forgot we’re debating with someone who can tell the future. This is one of the times when I wish we could backtrack to 1993 and hear what you said about Bill Clinton and how he would do with the deficits that he inherited. If I had to use my imagination, it’d be rife with predictions of huuuuuge tax increases and terrrrrrrrible unrestrained spending. The main problem is that you aren’t just a broken record, you’re a lousy soundtrack, too. ETA: And the irony of conservatives going on and on about the need to make cuts in Medicare to reduce the deficit, BUT HOW DARE OBAMA PROPOSE SAVINGS IN MEDICARE!! is too much to handle. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/728 "2010-03-08T17:49:03Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Ah, yes, I forgot we’re debating with someone who can tell the future. The future, maybe. The past? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/729 "2010-03-08T17:53:20Z")
“Socialized HC is so bad that the Palin family usedo " to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada,” Palin said in her first Canadian appearance since stepping down as governor of Alaska. “And I think now, isn’t that ironic?” > **[Palin Crossed Border For Canadian Health Care](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/palin-crossed-border-for_n_490080)** > > Palin Crossed Border For Canadian Health Care LOL! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/730 "2010-03-08T18:11:11Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > “Socialized HC is so bad that the Palin family usedo " to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada,” Palin said in her first Canadian appearance since stepping down as governor of Alaska. “And I think now, isn’t that ironic?” > [Palin Crossed Border For Canadian Health Care | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/08/palin-crossed-border-for_n_490080.html) Ironic indeed, although that article suggests that going to Whitehorse was due to proximity (going to the nearest large city) rather than specifically preferring Canadian over US healthcare. I shall reserve my lulz until I learn otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/731 "2010-03-08T18:20:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Ideology trumps rationality again. The irony; it burns. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/732 "2010-03-15T16:16:19Z")
[An update on the prospective vote count](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/03/some-cautious-optimism-on-health-care.html). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/733 "2010-03-15T16:32:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Ideology trumps rationality again. Your reading difficulties apparently trump all. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/734 "2010-03-20T00:27:09Z")
It’s bumpy time. This weekend marks the fifth or so “endgame” for this piece of shit. If this ugly motherfucker passes, I’ll still be dancing on its grave because it will likely get repealed come the GOP storm into Washington this fall. So, feel free to post your prognostications for this weekend’s festivities and predictions of the outcome. I am predicting passage by hook or by crook, followed by repeal early next year. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/735 "2010-03-20T00:38:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > …come the GOP storm into Washington this fall… Certainly possible. Led by a brilliant and charismatic leader, no doubt, like Sarah Palin. OK, Newt. Boehner? Pawlenty? Dubya? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/736 "2010-03-20T00:48:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I am predicting passage by hook or by crook, followed by repeal early next year. Ok, you are really a moron, a repeal early next year would require also that the president would not use his veto power. Even I would agree that democrats may lose many seats in the next congress, but it is idiotic to imply that it would be so many that Republicans could get a super majority in both houses. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/737 "2010-03-20T00:50:08Z")
I’m sort of liking the idea of a Republican resurgence, and then democrats using every parliamentary trick to obstruct everything, and having the republicans blovate about how THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS AND AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF DEMOCRACY!!! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/738 "2010-03-20T01:14:25Z")
Your mouth. Soap. Now. Go! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/739 "2010-03-20T01:31:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ok, you are really a moron, a repeal early next year would require also that the president would not use his veto power. > > Even I would agree that democrats may lose many seats in the next congress, but it is idiotic to imply that it would be so many that Republicans could get a super majority in both houses. Oops, you’re right, I dumbassed that up. I was just predicting passage to try and give you losers some hope so you’d participate in the thread. In any event, I predict this monstrosity of a bill does not ever in fact go into effect. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/740 "2010-03-20T03:18:22Z")
Didn’t you all hear? If and when President Obama exercises his first use of the veto, Republicans will scream that it is an unprecedented abuse of presidential power and the first step towards totalitarianism. The Washington press corps will then sit by silently, so as not to seem too “liberal”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=38)