# Dancing on the grave of health care "reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487 "2010-02-03T04:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/61 "2010-02-03T15:43:25Z")
But let’s taken an inventory of what Republicans proposed last time they were in charge: - they proposed that there were WMDs in Iraq - they proposed that Iraq had a connection to 9/11 - they proposed that it’s ok to have warrantless wiretaps - they proposed that we should start war in Iraq - they proposed that if we didn’t support them that we were unamerican - they proposed that we should all live in constant fear That’s some fine proposin’ there, Lou. The Republicans are the party of no ideas. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/62 "2010-02-03T15:46:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The last time they had the reins of government. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Pure opposition with no counter-proposal is perfectly fine when the proposal is a steaming pile. Oh fuck that. It just shows how you right wing assholes have nothing of value to add. And since you’re clearly too stupid to understand what I mean, having ideas, even if they aren’t the best ideas, is better than having no ideas at all. I’d rather someone show up with a proposal where things could be ironed out instead of someone just giving a big fuck you based on partisan horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/63 "2010-02-03T15:54:33Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > And since you’re clearly too stupid to understand what I mean, having ideas, even if they aren’t the best ideas, is better than having no ideas at all. No fucking way, not in the case of legislation. Two words: Patriot Act ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/64 "2010-02-03T16:08:09Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Oh fuck that. It just shows how you right wing assholes have nothing of value to add. > > And since you’re clearly too stupid to understand what I mean, having ideas, even if they aren’t the best ideas, is better than having no ideas at all. > > I’d rather someone show up with a proposal where things could be ironed out instead of someone just giving a big fuck you based on partisan horseshit. The point you are missing is that “the government should do nothing” is an idea. With respect to certain areas in which the government could do something, doing nothing is often the best idea. You don’t understand this because you are locked into the Vanilla Ice view of government (ie, if there’s a problem, yo, the government should solve it). ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/65 "2010-02-03T16:11:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Be Afraid!!! > Obamacare!!! > Government!!! > > When was the last time the Righties _proposed_ instead of _opposed_? > [@](#): > > The Patients’ Choice Act of 2009 (H.R. 2520 and S. 1099), sponsored by Congressmen Paul Ryan (R-WI) and David Nunes (R-CA) and Senators Tom Coburn(R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) would replace the existing system of $300 billion in tax breaks with a universal system of tax credits. Regardless of income or employment status, families would receive $5,700 and individuals would receive $2,300. Low-income families would receive further assistance through a supplemental debit card with roll-over funds. > > The Improving Health Care for All Americans Act (H.R. 3218), sponsored by Congressman John Shadegg (R-AZ), would allow Americans with employer-based coverage to keep it and would also extend tax breaks to Americans choosing to purchase insurance on their own. Americans who pay income taxes would receive tax credits of $5,000 for a family and $2,500 for individuals. Those who do not pay income tax would instead receive a voucher for the same amount. > > The Empower Patients First Act (H.R. 3400), sponsored by Representative Tom Price (R-GA), would reverse current tax inequality by extending tax credits and deductions to all Americans, regardless of whether they receive their insurance from the employer or purchase it individually. [http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/wm2666.cfm](http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/wm2666.cfm) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/66 "2010-02-03T16:24:23Z")
Oh, **Randy** , how I missed you. C’mere and give me a hug, pumpkinbutt. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/67 "2010-02-03T16:33:31Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > But let’s taken an inventory of what Republicans proposed last time they were in charge: > > - they proposed that there were WMDs in Iraq > - they proposed that Iraq had a connection to 9/11 > - they proposed that it’s ok to have warrantless wiretaps > - they proposed that we should start war in Iraq > - they proposed that if we didn’t support them that we were unamerican > - they proposed that we should all live in constant fear > > That’s some fine proposin’ there, Lou. > > The Republicans are the party of no ideas. Is that your best effort to present an honest, neutral recitation of Republican ideas c. 2001-2008? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/68 "2010-02-03T16:36:01Z")
OK, step up, **Bricker** : Which accomplishments of the all-GOP government do you think were best for the nation? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/69 "2010-02-03T16:37:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is that your best effort to present an honest, neutral recitation of Republican ideas c. 2001-2008? I’d be interested in a more exhaustive list. Now, don’t leave off the warts. Let’s be fair. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/70 "2010-02-03T16:49:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is that your best effort to present an honest, neutral recitation of Republican ideas c. 2001-2008? Who’s neutral, dipshit? I have no love for the fucking choads in the Republican party. Perhaps you need to pony up some “ideas” that the Republicans came up with that didn’t result in a massive fuckup. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/71 "2010-02-03T16:55:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’d be interested in a more exhaustive list. Now, don’t leave off the warts. Let’s be fair. Well, according to top Republicans, [We had no domestic attacks under Bush. We’ve had one under Obama.](http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/01/rudy-giuliani-morning-attacks) and [We did not have a terrorist attack on our country during President Bush’s term](http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911240056) So that’s a good thing, right? The Republicans kept the T’erists out. Except for the Anthrax thing. That is unsolved so it didn’t count. And the shoe bomber guy. That was totally unlike the panty bomber guy because he used his shoe. And the other attack that happened under Bush. But we can forget about that one. Or it’s unspoken. or something. Anyway let’s not speak of it. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/72 "2010-02-03T16:55:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It was a bad idea because government takeovers of large parts of the economy are always and obviously a bad idea. No they aren’t. See, I can play this game, too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/73 "2010-02-03T16:55:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Be Afraid!!! > Obamacare!!! > Government!!! > > When was the last time the Righties _proposed_ instead of _opposed_? Ann Coulter proposed you invade them, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. It didn’t really fly. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/74 "2010-02-03T17:04:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is that your best effort to present an honest, neutral recitation of Republican ideas c. 2001-2008? Well, he forgot cut taxes at the highest bracket. Really - obviously it’s biased and meant to highlight the negatives - but it’s actually pretty difficult to come up with anything good that the federal government in that period. I mean… I’m honestly having trouble coming up with something. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/75 "2010-02-03T17:16:33Z")
Setting up that wildlife refuge near Hawaii was nice. It doesn’t make up for destroying Iraq or the whole kidnap/torture thing, but it’s something that doesn’t suck. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/76 "2010-02-03T19:00:24Z")
Perhaps Rand and other trolls should look into moving to [Colorado Springs](http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473), the next great bastion of free market evangelism. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/77 "2010-02-03T20:29:38Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So, Barack HUSSEIN Obama’s attempt at health care “reform” has failed miserably. It’s not dead yet, but it’s on life support (hope it doesn’t get dropped from insurance for a pre-existing condition, amirite??? HAHAHA!!). > > So, I would like to make a bold pre-emptive gloating post to celebrate the death of health care “reform.” It was a bad idea because government takeovers of large parts of the economy are always and obviously a bad idea. It should never have been born, so its death is no great loss. > > Hey liberal douches–no free health insurance for you!! Not yours!!! You gotta pay for stuff just like all the rest of us schlubs that actually work for a living have gotta pay for stuff! So sowwy! > > Barack HUSSEIN Obama wanted to hook up even more Americans (excuse me, “hard-working Americans”) to the government teat so that he could keep his party in power by threatening to reduce and promising to increase benefits each and every motherfucking election cycle, but it didn’t work. The American people said no. > > If some form of this abortion of a bill gets passed, then you are all welcome to rub my faces in it. Until then, I prefer syrup. You make liberals look better with every post. Keep up the good work. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/78 "2010-02-03T20:44:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So he can go into the swimming pool up to his waist. Right; but the second part of that rule says he has to do it walking on his hands. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/79 "2010-02-03T20:56:08Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Pure opposition with no counter-proposal is perfectly fine when the proposal is a steaming pile. Well no actually. No explicit counter proposal is, in fact, an implicit proposal to _make no change_. I can see why you would choose to not say, explicitly, that the status quo _needs_ no reform, it’s a tough position to defend, but palming the card doesn’t make it go away. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/80 "2010-02-03T21:09:40Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Well no actually. No explicit counter proposal is, in fact, an implicit proposal to _make no change_. You can believe that something needs reform but at the same time, not know how to reform it, but know that they way that’s proposed isn’t a good way. I know, for instance, that too many people use dangerous and mind altering drugs, but I have no idea how to fix that. I know, though that summarily executing all drug users would be a bad idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=5)