# Dancing on the grave of health care "reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487 "2010-02-03T04:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/881 "2010-03-22T21:58:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You misunderstand. Conservatives don’t hate government…unless it’s trying to take money from one segment of the population and spend it buying the votes of another segment of the population. And trying to us dependent upon and under the control of a nanny-state government. And trying to convert the country into a giant human ant farm. And, you know, things like that… > > But other than that, yeah, government is not only good but necessary. It only becomes a problem when it falls into liberal hands. Which is usually followed by the bastards getting kicked out, but they’re devious and their programs remain embedded long after they’re gone and are almost impossible to get rid of. So then we get to where we are today, where liberalism seems to be winning the day in the direction the country follows, when the reality is that it has simply succeeded in sticking us with programs that we can’t get rid of even after we’ve gotten rid of the schmucks who foisted them upon us in the first place. This comment comes with complete seriousness, and no snark… I think there is a small possibility that people like you, Ann Coulter and Glen Beck will one day reveal themselves as satirists. And all this time they’ve each been playing a character like Stephen Colbert does, but never acknowledging it to anyone. They might then be hailed as the greatest performance artists in history. It’s a long shot, and wishful thinking on my part, I know. But it’s what I think of when I read posts like this. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/882 "2010-03-22T22:06:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Which programs would those be, and why aren’t your champions the Republicans looking out for your interests by getting rid of them when they’ve had the power to do so? > [@](#): > > Yes, it’s so annoying!! Damn those devious liberal bastards for creating and enacting government programs that the public likes and doesn’t want to get rid of! The answer to both of these is painfully obvious. When you force people to pay significant portions of their income into programs with the promise of future benefits (such as they may be), they naturally become protective of that investment and determined that when their time comes to get some kind of benefit from all those expenditures - expenditures that could otherwise have gone to care for and provide better for themselves and their families - they get what [relatively little] they’ve been promised. In other words, the programs don’t still exist because they’re popular and well-liked; they exist because the government has forced people to buy ownership in them. And then of course, once they reach retirement age and have made no plans of their own because they government has forced its plan on them and left them without the money that could have gone to provide for themselves, they support it because thanks to the government it’s all they have. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/883 "2010-03-22T22:10:22Z")
Sorry about my part is helping this become the “everything was perfect in 1952 before you communists took it all away!” show. It should rightfully return to bashing Rand Rover. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/884 "2010-03-22T22:10:30Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > This comment comes with complete seriousness, and no snark… > > I think there is a small possibility that people like you, Ann Coulter and Glen Beck will one day reveal themselves as satirists. And all this time they’ve each been playing a character like Stephen Colbert does, but never acknowledging it to anyone. They might then be hailed as the greatest performance artists in history. > > It’s a long shot, and wishful thinking on my part, I know. But it’s what I think of when I read posts like this. You know, there’s nothing at all to keep you from contributing to support our art. A post office box where you can mail your contribution is available by PM. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/885 "2010-03-22T22:17:36Z")
SA, I see your critics offer only name calling instead of debate… I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/886 "2010-03-22T22:25:34Z")
I can tell you exactly why. It’s the de riguer response for anyone not hewing to the liberal line. Been that way for decades. Plus they have no defense. 😃 Take a look at the names that more serious and less frequent posters and debaters such as **Sam Stone** and **Bricker** come in for around here, and you’ll see that name-calling on this board is more a function of politics and less a matter of individual style. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/887 "2010-03-22T22:29:09Z")
> [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > SA, I see your critics offer only name calling instead of debate… I wonder why. You see it because you’re a delusional fucking moron. SA is shown to be wrong in nearly every thread he posts in. He is uninformed and blindly ideological. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/888 "2010-03-22T22:30:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I can tell you exactly why. It’s the de riguer response for anyone not hewing to the liberal line. Been that way for decades. > > Plus they have no defense. 😃 > > Take a look at the names that more serious and less frequent posters and debaters such as **Sam Stone** and **Bricker** come in for around here, and you’ll see that name-calling on this board is more a function of politics and less a matter of individual style. Are they all trying to impress each other? Could they offer some rational arguement to sway the undecided? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/889 "2010-03-22T22:32:28Z")
> [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > SA, I see your critics offer only name calling instead of debate… I wonder why. This is an incorrect characterization. We offer debate along with the name calling. But more importantly - Starving Artist is a one trick pony. His claims have already been mercilessly run through the wringer and it makes no difference to him. Everyone knows what he’s about, and just about everyone dismisses him. Since this thread should be about bashing Rand Rover instead, I figured we could spare indulging SA this once. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/890 "2010-03-22T22:41:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You see it because you’re a delusional fucking moron. > > SA is shown to be wrong in nearly every thread he posts in. He is uninformed and blindly ideological. OK, could you tell how he is wrong? PS I’m not a moron, I graded far into imbicle territory. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/891 "2010-03-22T22:43:59Z")
> [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > SA, I see your critics offer only name calling instead of debate… I wonder why. Because this is the BBQ Pit and not Great Debates? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/892 "2010-03-22T22:49:33Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Because this is the BBQ Pit and not Great Debates? :rolleyes: Could there be more to it than that? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/893 "2010-03-22T22:56:41Z")
> [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > Are they all trying to impress each other? > Could they offer some rational arguement to sway the undecided? No, they’re all just expressing their outrage at somebody who dares to think differently than they do about things, and who dares to point out to them the damage they’ve done to this society. To them, there are only two ways to think, which is their way and the evil/stupid way…and, being either evil or stupid (or even better, evil _and_ stupid) they feel perfectly justified in their practice of name-calling. This is because their opponents don’t _deserve_ respectful treatment you see. There is simply no way of thinking that differs from theirs that calls for anything other than vitriol. You can see this in almost every post that **Lobohan** makes, where he invariably calls anyone who he disagrees with a moron, like he did with you, or otherwise casts aspersions on their intelligence. This is not only typical of the liberal thought process but in his case ironic as well, given that he is a truly stupid person and almost without exception less intelligent than the people whose smarts he is attacking. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/894 "2010-03-22T23:02:46Z")
I am here trying to understand their POV. Do they not believe that you get more of the behavior that is rewarded? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/895 "2010-03-22T23:10:13Z")
Lovin’ the Socratic dialogue, guys. Almost makes you look like two different people. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/896 "2010-03-22T23:13:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know, there’s nothing at all to keep you from contributing to support our art. A post office box where you can mail your contribution is available by PM. If it’s all right with you, I’ll just keep up my support of the NEA. Will that work? 🙂 Earlier today I posted a comment in another thread about a poster who has some of the same feelings you do. I said I think he has a bit of a persecution complex, and actually desires to see himself as a kind of message board martyr. I don’t intend this as name calling, although it’s possible you may interpret it as such. But the fact is, there is spirited debate on these boards. If you happen to be in a minority opinion a lot of the time, tough. But I certainly don’t want you to stop posting, or leave, or somehow “conform” to the prevailing opinions, and I don’t think most others do either. Can we stop the whining along those lines? I welcome debate and dissenting opinions, but I also reserve the right to point and laugh when those opinions appear to be at odds with reality as I see it. I think we should drop this mini-meme of “the SDMB wants me to go away because I don’t agree with the approved opinions.” It’s just not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/897 "2010-03-22T23:13:42Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Because this is the BBQ Pit and not Great Debates? :rolleyes: Name-calling and insults would be the case in Great Debates too if they were allowed. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > But more importantly - Starving Artist is a one trick pony. Not true. I post about lots of things, music, movies, health care, current politics. It only seems like I’m a one-trick pony to you because if there’s anything liberals hate, it’s being shown the error of their ways and how many lives have been lost or fucked up and how much society has declined as the result of liberal ideological and political influence, and so my posts on that subject take on a life far larger then either the number or scope of my other posts. And further, to **LavenderBlue** and whoever else thinks I should shut up about the subject, I would ask why should I? The problems not only still exist but they’re getting worse, so why should a person get only so many passes at addressing them? This board is filled with the same old complaints about conservatives and Republicans that have been going on since long before I got here. And you’re all still going on about racism and homophobia, a couple of subjects which, unlike the problems I raise, have gotten much better. So why is their redunduncy not annoying to you as well? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/898 "2010-03-22T23:31:11Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > If it’s all right with you, I’ll just keep up my support of the NEA. Will that work? 🙂 I knew it! Those liberal artists get all the dough. 😉 > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Earlier today I posted a comment in another thread about a poster who has some of the same feelings you do. I said I think he has a bit of a persecution complex, and actually desires to see himself as a kind of message board martyr. This seems to be a common belief around here. Not to say this is the case with you because I believe you’re being sincere, but I generally tend to think of this kind of comment as an easy way to dismiss the conservative poster’s point of view…his points aren’t valid, he just has a persecution complex. As far as why I post here, there are a couple of reasons. One is that for the first time in my life I can actually confront people whose way of thinking has had what I regard as a very harmful effect on this country; and two, I don’t like leaving things I disagree with to stand unchallenged. It makes them look like accepted fact. Still, I’m only one guy and there are dozens of threads and hundreds of posts every day that I could take issue with but simply don’t have either the time or inclination. I’ve often been surprised at how much certain people around here seem to think I’m in their face all the time. I can assure you all that you are in my face much more than I am in yours. > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > I don’t intend this as name calling, although it’s possible you may interpret it as such. But the fact is, there is spirited debate on these boards. If you happen to be in a minority opinion a lot of the time, tough. This is pretty much how I look at it. But I certainly don’t want you to stop posting, or leave, or somehow “conform” to the prevailing opinions, and I don’t think most others do either. > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Can we stop the whining along those lines? I welcome debate and dissenting opinions, but I also reserve the right to point and laugh when those opinions appear to be at odds with reality as I see it. I think we should drop this mini-meme of “the SDMB wants me to go away because I don’t agree with the approved opinions.” It’s just not the case. Have you missed the posts in this thread uging me to shut up, to stop posting about these things because I’ve posted about them before, to put me on ignore? That kind of thing? **lissener** even started a Pit thread once for the express purpose of trying to rally other posters to ignore me until I came to my senses and began to acknowledge that the liberal posters are right after all. Besides, I don’t really post that much at all about how the board wants me to go away. What I post about is how any dissenting point of view is reviled and considered evil or stupid, and how liberals, both here and in society in general, seek to oppress opposition to their own beliefs through intimidation and insults and name-calling. That’s what I’m on about, and the reason for it is that I am very concerned about what the future holds when only one ideological point of view is tolerated. I have come to be of the opinion that liberalism is an utterly dictatorial and inflexible and unyielding ideology and one which seeks to utterly crush its opponents. We’ve seen this repressiveness taken to its logical extreme in countries like the Soviet Union and communist China and Cuba, and it’s enough to make me want to fight it tooth and nail every time it rears its ugly head. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/899 "2010-03-22T23:41:36Z")
[http://www.gop.com/firepelosi/](http://www.gop.com/firepelosi/) It’s been nearly a day, and the RNC has yet to raise a $ million for its “Fire Pelosi” fund. Has the fire gone out of the GOP base? Utah, Alabama, Idaho and Alaska in particular seem to be doing less than their fair share for the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/900 "2010-03-22T23:42:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That’s what I’m on about, and the reason for it is that I am very concerned about what the future holds when only one ideological point of view is tolerated. I have come to be of the opinion that liberalism is an utterly dictatorial and inflexible and unyielding ideology and one which seeks to utterly crush its opponents. By the way, you owe me a new Irony Meter. Projection, much? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=46)