# Dancing on the grave of health care "reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487 "2010-02-03T04:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/961 "2010-03-23T19:30:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So your defense for liberalism’s failings is that I’m 61 years old? :dubious: > > Typical. Those words you put in my mouth taste pretty bitter. Don’t worry, I’m getting off your lawn. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/962 "2010-03-23T19:32:12Z")
Dude, you’re only 61? Seriously? You make my senile 84 year old grandpa sound coherent. What in the holy fuck happened to you? Did a hippie kill your parents or something? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/963 "2010-03-23T19:37:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So your defense for liberalism’s failings is that I’m 61 years old? That means your direct experience with the Fifties, that time when all the world was right, was that of a child. Your image of the world as having gone to hell at a particular date corresponds with the time you were becoming aware that there even was a world outside your comfortable suburban home. Still, that’s also the age at which most people start to outgrow self-centeredness. Some just get stalled, though. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/964 "2010-03-23T19:42:20Z")
I’m not worried in the slightest. The fact that you can only respond to my accusations by making fun of my age speaks volumes. (And what it says when it speaks is: **SA** wins! :D) And on preview it looks like we can add **DianaG** to that list too. **SA** : You guys fucked up a lot of shit. Drugs and crime are rampant; you created projects that became ghettoes; you fucked up the educational system; and created an environment resulting in the breakdown of the family and millions of single-family homes, many of them in the very ghettoes that you created. Liberal Dopers: BWAHAHAHA…what an old coot! Don’t you know that fuckedupedness is the new cool? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/965 "2010-03-23T19:45:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, it isn’t having the intended effect. Might I suggest Imodium AD instead? You might not. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So your defense for liberalism’s failings is that I’m 61 years old? :dubious: Actually, our defense for _you_ is that you’re 61 years old. Liberalism is a lot older, but unlike you it’s still useful. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/966 "2010-03-23T19:45:46Z")
Not really. People have debated you honestly for _years_. It’s pretty obvious by now there’s nothing productive to be gained by that; you continue to hold opinions that are in direct opposition to reality. So I choose to insult instead, because it’s more fun. You senile old bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/967 "2010-03-23T19:52:27Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Not really. People have debated you honestly for _years_. It’s pretty obvious by now there’s nothing productive to be gained by that; you continue to hold opinions that are in direct opposition to reality. So I choose to insult instead, because it’s more fun. You senile old bastard. There’s a difference between debating and proving and I haven’t been proven wrong on any of these issues. Instead I get misdirection, obfuscation and simple denial. And you can make fun of my age as much as you like, I recognize it for what it is. And in case you hadn’t noticed, it has no effect. This isn’t a fifth-grade playground. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/968 "2010-03-23T19:53:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There’s a difference between debating and proving and I haven’t been proven wrong on any of these issues. Instead I get misdirection, obfuscation and simple denial. Bullshit. > [@](#): > > This isn’t a fifth-grade playground. 😕 It’s the Pit. Of course it is. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/969 "2010-03-23T19:59:48Z")
I’d ask SA for an example of an instance when he’s proven someone else wrong, but unlike him, I don’t plan on sitting on my ass pissing and moaning about how the world isn’t fair until I grow old and bitter, so I don’t have that kind of time. ---
**Author:** ![Claptree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Claptree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claptree)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/970 "2010-03-23T20:02:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There’s a difference between debating and proving and I haven’t been proven wrong on any of these issues. Instead I get misdirection, obfuscation and simple denial. > > And you can make fun of my age as much as you like, I recognize it for what it is. And in case you hadn’t noticed, it has no effect. This isn’t a fifth-grade playground. Standards of proof, then. Your claim to not have been proven wrong is based exclusively, in direct conflict with reality, on your refusal to accept any proof in contradiction with the comfy yet terrifying world you hide in. Or, in fifth-grade playground terms: WAA WAA WAA I CAN’T HEAR YOU ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/971 "2010-03-23T20:05:03Z")
Hey, breaking news on how much Americans hate this socialistic health care bill: > [@](#): > > By 49%-40% those surveyed say it was “a good thing” rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms, as “enthusiastic” or “pleased,” while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as “disappointed” or “angry.” The largest single group, 48%, calls the bill “a good first step” that should be followed by more action on health care. No one gets overwhelmingly positive ratings on the issue, but Obama fares the best: 46% say his work has been excellent or good; 31% call it poor. … The standing of congressional Republicans is more negative. While 26% rate their work on health care as good or excellent, a larger group, 34%, say it has been poor. [Cite.](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm) Why did we jam this massive reorganization of one-sixth of the economy down the throats of the 40% of Americans who didn’t like it??? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/972 "2010-03-23T20:13:44Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I’d ask SA for an example of an instance when he’s proven someone else wrong, but unlike him, I don’t plan on sitting on my ass pissing and moaning about how the world isn’t fair until I grow old and bitter, so I don’t have that kind of time. I’ve seen enough of your posts to know that you’re not all that young yourself, and that anyone as disagreeable and unpleasant as you generally tend to be has to be carrying around a fair bit of bitterness herself. And besides, I’m not really a bitter or angry person. Anyone who knows me away from here would laugh at the notion. It’s just that there’s so much self-righteous liberal bullshit that goes on around here, and so much over the top condemnation of the right, that occasionally it becomes necessary to fight fire with fire. (And it just so happens that when it comes to liberalism there’s plenty there to set a match to. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/973 "2010-03-23T20:17:12Z")
Just for the record, “everything was GREAT until you people-who-don’t-agree-with-me came and fucked it all up!” is the epitome of self-righteous bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/974 "2010-03-23T20:20:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Mosier > > Teen pregnancy rates were HIGHER in the fifties. > > This has never been proved. Would you like to start moving the goalposts now, or wait until a bit later? The pesky cites that were given to you last time this one rolled around have not gone away: [2008 US teen pregnancy rate near historic low](http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJ0G34BcX2d_qJk58Vwr-yBQX3ow) If you have a cite that shows that the teen pregnancy rate was lower in the 1950’s than now, please put up or shut up. I’ll also accept any cite that shows the teen birthrate was lower in the 1950’s than it is today, since I will assume that in the 1950’s teens had more difficulty in obtaining abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/975 "2010-03-23T20:25:12Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Just for the record, “everything was GREAT until you people-who-don’t-agree-with-me came and fucked it all up!” is the epitome of self-righteous bullshit. You haven’t been paying attention. I’ve never said everything was “GREAT” until liberals fucked it up. Certainly problems existed then. I’ve said more than once that it’s only in comparison with how fucked up things are now that the fifties seem like such a golden age. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/976 "2010-03-23T20:27:56Z")
No, it’s only because you were a child that the Fifties seem like such a golden age to you. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/977 "2010-03-23T20:28:03Z")
You know, for like .0037 seconds, I thought about taking SA off ignore, to see if he’d answered that in any substantive way. Then I stepped away from the pipe. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/978 "2010-03-23T20:30:28Z")
Starving Artist [exposed](http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/979 "2010-03-23T20:32:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You haven’t been paying attention. I’ve never said everything was “GREAT” until liberals fucked it up. Certainly problems existed then. I’ve said more than once that it’s only in comparison with how fucked up things are now that the fifties seem like such a golden age. I was thinking about your immovable “things were better then” viewpoint this weekend, when I went home to see my 82-year-old dad. He was born in 1928, in rural South Carolina. He lived through the guts of the Depression in the rural South. He is a WW2 veteran. He was married in the 50’s, and raised kids in the 60’s and 70’s. He now lives in an all-black neighborhood (well, probably 98%) in Montgomery, Alabama. He has never been rich or even well-off in his life. I asked him if he thought things were better “back then”, and if he would go back to those times if he could. He laughed at me. In his opinion, things are so much better now that it’s almost not even worth talking about it. I’m with him. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/980 "2010-03-23T20:39:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I said don’t give me that shit! It has nothing to do with the problems I’m describing, and it could have been (and largely was being) eliminated prior to the counter-culture revolution. > … > Not sure about this one, but I doubt it. Who gives a shit about your doubt? Prior to the desegregation of schools (a charge famously not led by conservatives), black students in the US were schooled in abysmal conditions. Those conditions were pure heaven compared to the schools available for Native American children. Are you seriously contending that graduation rates for black students are not higher today than they were in the 1950s? You’re completely impervious to facts, and the crazy thing is, you project that failing onto everyone else. I provided you a shitload of cites in my last post in this thread, and you ignored every one. The truth? You can’t handle the truth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=50)