# Dancing on the grave of health care "reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487 "2010-02-03T04:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/81 "2010-02-03T21:12:51Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > But let’s taken an inventory of what Republicans proposed last time they were in charge: > > - they proposed that there were WMDs in Iraq > - they proposed that Iraq had a connection to 9/11 > - they proposed that it’s ok to have warrantless wiretaps > - they proposed that we should start war in Iraq > - they proposed that if we didn’t support them that we were unamerican > - they proposed that we should all live in constant fear > > That’s some fine proposin’ there, Lou. > > The Republicans are the party of no ideas. I won’t really argue these with you, but to be fair, [Medicare prescription coverage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Prescription_Drug,_Improvement,_and_Modernization_Act) and [AIDS relief for Africa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief) also happened on Dubya’s watch. Still a shitty president, but it wasn’t all waterboarding and deficit spending. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/82 "2010-02-03T21:20:06Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Well, he forgot cut taxes at the highest bracket. Really - obviously it’s biased and meant to highlight the negatives - but it’s actually pretty difficult to come up with anything good that the federal government in that period. I mean… I’m honestly having trouble coming up with something. The only thing I could come up with is Bush’s AIDS funding for Africa. I can’t say I disagree with him going after the Taliban in Afghanistan for sheltering Bin Laden, but they fucked that up royally too. I’m feeling generous, so I’ll call this a wash. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/83 "2010-02-03T21:23:59Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > You can believe that something needs reform but at the same time, not know how to reform it, but know that they way that’s proposed isn’t a good way. > > I know, for instance, that too many people use dangerous and mind altering drugs, but I have no idea how to fix that. I know, though that summarily executing all drug users would be a bad idea. …and you’ve explicitly stated each of your points, thereby opening them to straightforward debate. Since you’ve choosen an easily defendable example, this doesn’t put your status as someone to be taken seriously in drug policy debate at any risk. This is different than saying ‘I know you’re wrong, but I won’t say what would be better or what we have is fine so you can’t challenge my credibility, I just know you’re wrong.’ ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/84 "2010-02-03T21:35:21Z")
Obvious troll is … obvious? Why do you all react? It’s not even a good attempt at a troll. Capitalizing “Hussein” in the first sentence? Oh dear. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/85 "2010-02-03T21:46:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is that your best effort to present an honest, neutral recitation of Republican ideas c. 2001-2008? [I tried asking that same question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533652) but even conservatives couldn’t come up with much. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/86 "2010-02-03T21:47:13Z")
To paraphrase the bard… “Our days of not taking **Rand Rover** seriously are certainly coming to a middle.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/87 "2010-02-03T21:48:39Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > I won’t really argue these with you, but to be fair, [Medicare prescription coverage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Prescription_Drug,_Improvement,_and_Modernization_Act) and [AIDS relief for Africa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief) also happened on Dubya’s watch. > > Still a shitty president, but it wasn’t all waterboarding and deficit spending. I’m willing to bet \*\*Rand \*\*doesn’t agree with either. Stealing his money for lazy people’s drugs and third world brownies ! The nerve ! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/88 "2010-02-03T22:37:04Z")
Mmmmm . . . third world brownies. . . . Snack time, BRB. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/89 "2010-02-03T22:52:06Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I want the government to take all of **Rand Rover** ’s money away and give it to undeserving poor people. Undeserving poor _immigrant_ people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/90 "2010-02-03T22:59:50Z")
_Illegal_ immigrant people. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/91 "2010-02-03T23:30:36Z")
Undeserving poor illegal immigrant _Aliens!_ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/92 "2010-02-03T23:35:58Z")
_Unwed_ undeserving poor illegal immigrant aliens! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/93 "2010-02-03T23:50:21Z")
You know, I had forgotten the President’s middle name. So thanks for reminding me. It’s a pity you didn’t post anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/94 "2010-02-03T23:52:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not quite. The problem is that people, by force of law, are already too heavily invested in it. Additionally, since they have been by force of law heavily invested in it, and had no choice but to participate in it, they have made no alternative plans for health care during their retirement years. So yeah, they don’t want to lose it. So you’re content to have people, by force of law, throw good money after bad because ending the program would pull the rug out from some citizens in a manner that is no different than a family of 5 losing their health insurance because Dad got fired? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That doesn’t mean it was a good idea, or that it has been well implemented. The return on investment for the majority is dismal. I would suggest the great fear of the Right is that it would be run like other government programs – i.e., underfunded, bureaucratic and capricous. And eventually with no other option. Like how government involvement in the mail, police, fire departments, and schools prevent everyone from using FedEx, private security, fire activated sprinkler systems, and private schools? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/95 "2010-02-04T00:07:19Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > Like how government involvement in the mail, police, fire departments, and schools prevent everyone from using FedEx, private security, fire activated sprinkler systems, and private schools? No, silly boy. Because the underfunded, bureaucratic and capricous (and might I add, inefficient, bloated and overpaid) government program will obviously out-compete private insurance companies. Thus proving that private enterprise is best at competition. Or something. I got lost there for a sec. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/96 "2010-02-04T00:24:45Z")
It’s really weird that **Rand Rover** made this recent comeback after such a long absence, given that Ayn Rand’s 105th bday was yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/97 "2010-02-04T00:27:03Z")
That’s right everybody, feel the hate. Let it well up all nice and toasty in your black little hearts. BigT, thanks, it had been a couple of posts since that particular targeted kind of hate, I was in need of another hit. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/98 "2010-02-04T00:30:00Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > It’s really weird that **Rand Rover** made this recent comeback after such a long absence, given that Ayn Rand’s 105th bday was yesterday. The Rand Rover works in mysterious ways, my friend. Now, surely you’ve got some hate for me, don’t hold out, now. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/99 "2010-02-04T00:34:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m willing to bet \*\*Rand \*\*doesn’t agree with either. Stealing his money for lazy people’s drugs and third world brownies ! The nerve ! You know, I really have a hard time with this kind of thing. Yes, I have no problem accepting the notion that the subject of your statement is a reprehensible nogoodnik. But the implied assumption that he is guilty of the worst sort of racist disregard of the humanity of brown-skinned people is, to the best of my knowledge completely unsupported by his posting history. Making such an unsupported accusation, even if it’s only an implied one, is ultimately a losing proposition for our (that is, the _right_) side. It provides ammunition for people who want to accuse _us_ of discourtesy, sloppy and undisciplined thought processes, dishonest argument formation, and conclusion-jumping. From making such an accusation stick, it is a short step to getting an uncritical observer to question the validity of our substantive assertions. Just because a Pubbie is guilty of some forms of douchebaggery doesn’t mean he has to be guilty of _all_ of them. Welcome back, **Rand Rover**. I’ll make no pretense that I view you as anything other than a lemon; I just hope that in seeing you get your ass handed to you (and assisting, where I am able), I’ll be able to watch you being made into lemonade. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/100 "2010-02-04T00:45:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You know, I really have a hard time with this kind of thing. Yes, I have no problem accepting the notion that the subject of your statement is a reprehensible nogoodnik. But the implied assumption that he is guilty of the worst sort of racist disregard of the humanity of brown-skinned people is, to the best of my knowledge completely unsupported by his posting history. I don’t think he is guilty of the worst sort of disregard of the humanity of brown-skinned people. I think he’s guilty of the worst sort of disregard of the humanity of people, period. I do, however, apologize for the admittedly unwarranted racism crack. It didn’t feel right at the time of posting, and when I finally came up with something fairer (though less pithy), the edit window was over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=6)