# Dancing on the grave of health care "reform" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487 "2010-02-03T04:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/141 "2010-02-05T01:22:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I would have to confess, as I approach the threshold of late youth, my grasp of median voter equillibrium theory is a bit rusty. Alas. I suppose it takes a young person like myself to appreciate the beauty and elegance of a good, stiff single-peaked preference profile. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/142 "2010-02-05T01:39:08Z")
Wow. And I thought _calculus_ was gay. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/143 "2010-02-05T02:15:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, I’m sure they’ll look back upon the society of today, with its teen pregnancy, STD and abortion rates; MUST you trot out the teen pregnancy rate thing again? Didn’t we just do this? The one where we showed you that the teen pregnancy rate was higher in your “golden past”? Then you backpedaled about how you meant “unwed teen pregnancy rate”. And ignored the weddings that took place 5 months before the birth… But here you are trotting it this old chestnut again, pressed and cleaned and looking all shiny new… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/144 "2010-02-05T02:26:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > MUST you trot out the teen pregnancy rate thing again? Didn’t we just do this? The one where we showed you that the teen pregnancy rate was higher in your “golden past”? > > Then you backpedaled about how you meant “unwed teen pregnancy rate”. And ignored the weddings that took place 5 months before the birth… > > But here you are trotting it this old chestnut again, pressed and cleaned and looking all shiny new… Fact: Starving Artist is too stupid to learn. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/145 "2010-02-05T02:29:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, I’m sure they’ll look back upon the society of today, with its teen pregnancy, STD and abortion rates; the lives lost and ruined by its run away drug problem and the huge amount of crime that comes with it; its impotent educational system; and the millions of kids raising themselves in broken or single-family homes – all of which are the result of liberal influence and values – and determine that conservatives were the stupid ones. There are no teen pregnancies, STDs, abortions, drug problems, crime or broken homes among conservatives? Really? If these things do in fact exist among conservatives, how is liberalism at fault, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/146 "2010-02-05T02:33:37Z")
Oh goody ! It’s time for a new episode of the \*\*Starving \*\*“Dang hippies ruined everything !” \*\*Artist \*\*Show ! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/147 "2010-02-05T02:34:49Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Now that you mention it, you do pretty much the same thing. > > I would be happy to dissect a piece of formal economic literature with you any time. I confess to being extremely curious which canonical articles in the past fifteen years or so have given you such confidence in your own beliefs. In my own surveys of the literature and struggles with problem sets, I see no such certainty. > > I hope you have access to JSTOR. Better yet, if you have some nonbillable hours to kill, I recommend Persson & Tabellini’s _Political Economics: Understanding Economic Policy_. Section II is all about redistributive politics. As long as you remember your algebra, calculus, probability, and median voter equilibrium theory, you should be fine. I have never claimed to be an expert in economics (and I am sure no one would mistake me for one). But I know more about the debate over Keynesian economics than to say that it’s obvious that the government should “ramp up” (by how much?) spending temporarily (for how long?) before a looming depression (when does the period of looming begin exactly?). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/148 "2010-02-05T02:45:45Z")
I’m thinking it was right about the time that pensioners whose retirement funds had been gobbled up began applying for jobs as Wal-mart greeters. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/149 "2010-02-05T02:46:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Fact: Starving Artist is too stupid to learn. Wow, what a devastating comeback. That’ll teach him. :rolleyes: You may want to read this over, Chucklehead: [QUOTE=Starving Artist] You know, it’s funny. I just finished pointing out to Shot From Guns in another thread that it’s usually the posters who are so fond of continually calling their opponents stupid and retarded who most often come off as stupid and retarded themselves, and now here I am having to point out the same thing to you. Must be a compensation thing. [/QUOTE] This has been pointed out to you numerous times before, but it doesn’t penetrate. Regardless, please, if you insist on having us all witness you wit, can you, you know, be witty? Even a little? Maybe get someone to help you if you have to… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/150 "2010-02-05T02:47:53Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m genuinely curious about something. > > Let’s say that someone doesn’t get insurance, either because their job doesn’t offer it, or because they had an employment gap and a preexisting condition, or because they’re just plain irresponsible - and feel free to give multiple answers if the reason makes a difference. > > Anyway, their lack of insurance ends up resulting in insufficient medical care, and they die because of it. > > Do you view this as a necesary tragedy, or would you be gleeful that one of the people who wasn’t as smart and responsible as you got what was coming for them? Here’s the longer response I’ve been alluding to. I don’t think it’s a “necessary tragedy” and I am not gleeful about it. It’s just something that happend. The person made certain choices and each of those choices had certain possible consequences. One of the possible consequences of not having health insurance is not receiving sufficient medical care. I guess you characterize it as a “tragedy” because the government could have provided health insurance, which would have saved this person’s life. However, the government could do lots of things that would have lots of benefits for people. It doesn’t mean that the government should do that. For example, the government could provide for unemployment for 3 years at 90% of previous salary, as is provided in Denmark. I’m sure there are people that die because they get laid off and become homeless after their unemployment runs out. Do you think this is a necesary tragedy or are you gleeful about it? I suspect it’s neither. Or, think of all the wasted potential because some people can’t afford college–the government could pay for everyone to go to school. Or, to take this to an absurd extreme to illustrate the point, what about people that die in car crashes? The government could outlaw cars and save every one of those people’s lives. We shouldn’t think of the role of the government in terms of what it could do to stop bad things from happening to people, because in that case there would be no limits to government because there is always something it could do to stop any particular perceived bad thing from happening. Rather, the purpose of the government is only to do those things that benefit everyone in a more-or-less equal fashion (such as defense, police, roads, etc.), because it is only for those things that it makes sense for the government to force everyone to pay. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/151 "2010-02-05T02:59:16Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I want the government to treat poor people and minorities humanely (ie, as humans, not as pets). If that makes me an “omni-tool,” so be it. That is such a lame justification for not being humane or charitable. If you can convince yourself treating the poor and unlucky like that is doing them a favor., what else are you capable of deluding yourself of? Tough love/ Training the poor . Perhaps you should teach them to be like you with poor people treats and a rolled newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/152 "2010-02-05T03:00:02Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Wow, what a devastating comeback. That’ll teach him. :rolleyes: > > You may want to read this over, Chucklehead: It was a comment to the assembled. SA doesn’t require a comeback, he’s an idiot on the face of it. Magellan, bubbie, read the post again when you’re confused. > [@](#): > > This has been pointed out to you numerous times before, but it doesn’t penetrate. Regardless, please, if you insist on having us all witness you wit, can you, you know, be witty? Even a little? Maybe get someone to help you if you have to… I’ll leave it to the peanut gallery as to which of us is stupid. But you know where my vote is. 😃 After all, I’m not the one who wants to withhold basic human rights from people just because I’m prejudiced. So maybe you should shut your lying, cowardly mouth\* kay? \*To cut off your bullshit denials. You’re a liar because you’ve said that you have a real argument against SSM. You’re a coward because you are too afraid to face the fact that you don’t have an argument. Yay! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/153 "2010-02-05T03:07:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > That is such a lame justification for not being humane or charitable. If you can convince yourself treating the poor and unlucky like that is doing them a favor., what else are you capable of deluding yourself of? Tough love/ Training the poor . Perhaps you should teach them to be like you with poor people treats and a rolled newspaper. What? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/154 "2010-02-05T03:25:04Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It was a comment to the assembled. SA doesn’t require a comeback, he’s an idiot on the face of it. No one said anyone or anything _required_ a comeback, Chucklehead. (As if what you wrote even makes sense.) But I took the opportunity to respond to your kneejeerk stock-in-trade. Required? No. Optional? Yes. Enjoyable to point out what a pathetic little one-trick pony? Absolutely. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll leave it to the peanut gallery as to which of us is stupid. But you know where my vote is. 😃 After all, I’m not the one who wants to withhold basic human rights from people just because I’m prejudiced. So maybe you should shut your lying, cowardly mouth\* kay? Oooooooo. Well, maybe you should shut it for me, Mr. Big Brave Internet Tough Guy. M’kay? :rolleyes: But I think it’s hilarious that you think that even if I were prejudiced, that that would absolve you of your stupidity. Again, you need to re-reread what Starving Artist wrote to you. By the way, Chucklehead, do you prefer Chucklehead or LOLbohan? Or something a bot more formal like Chucklehead The One Trick Pony? Please advise. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/155 "2010-02-05T03:27:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What? \ Asshole says what \ ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/156 "2010-02-05T03:28:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No one said anyone or anything _required_ a comeback, Chucklehead. (As if what you wrote even makes sense.) But I took the opportunity to respond to your kneejeerk stock-in-trade. Required? No. Optional? Yes. Enjoyable to point out what a pathetic little one-trick pony? Absolutely. > > Oooooooo. Well, maybe you should shut it for me, Mr. Big Brave Internet Tough Guy. M’kay? :rolleyes: I don’t know if I could beat you up. I do know that you’re a weak, hateful little shit. And that’s true no matter how big you biceps are. > [@](#): > > But I think it’s hilarious that you think that even if I were prejudiced, that that would absolve you of your stupidity. Again, you need to re-reread what Starving Artist wrote to you. I understood it the first time, thanks. > [@](#): > > By the way, Chucklehead, do you prefer Chucklehead or LOLbohan? Or something a bot more formal like Chucklehead The One Trick Pony? Please advise. I’d prefer you to call me whatever makes you look more pathetic. I’m sure you will figure that out on your own. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/157 "2010-02-05T03:45:29Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t know if I could beat you up. I do know that you’re a weak, hateful little shit. And that’s true no matter how big you biceps are. Well, that’s one more thing that I know and you don’t. And it has nothing to do with biceps or size. It has to do with you being a pussy. You’re a loud little chihuahua on these boards, yapping at people trying to make a show of toughness and brains, in the hopes that you’ll never have to actually man up. And in real life you’re a punk, seeking comfort and protection from the crowd that you try to be a part of. Tell me, Chucklehead, do have a pack of cigarettes rolled up in your sleeve. Maybe a tattoo? :eek: Because, by golly, you really come off as being just THAT tough. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I understood it the first time, thanks. Evidently not. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I’d prefer you to call me whatever makes you look more pathetic. I’m sure you will figure that out on your own. 😃 Sigh. God, you’re not good at this, Chucklehead. You simply must try harder. Otherwise, I’m going to have to start charging you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/158 "2010-02-05T03:45:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > \ Asshole says what \ I know. I don’t want the government to pay for health insurance, so i’m an asshole. Simply amazing. There is lots of stuff the government could pay for but doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/159 "2010-02-05T03:50:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well, that’s one more thing that I know and you don’t. And it has nothing to do with biceps or size. It has to do with you being a pussy. You’re a loud little chihuahua on these boards, yapping at people trying to make a show of toughness and brains, in the hopes that you’ll never have to actually man up. And in real life you’re a punk, seeking comfort and protection from the crowd that you try to be a part of. Tell me, Chucklehead, do have a pack of cigarettes rolled up in your sleeve. Maybe a tattoo? :eek: Because, by golly, you really come off as being just THAT tough. Sorry, don’t smoke. And as I say, I’ll let the peanut gallery make the appropriate judgments. > [@](#): > > Evidently not. I don’t think you understand what evidence means. > [@](#): > > Sigh. God, you’re not good at this, Chucklehead. You simply must try harder. Otherwise, I’m going to have to start charging you. Am I to understand that your milkshake is bringing the boys to the yard? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487/160 "2010-02-05T03:58:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Sorry, don’t smoke. And as I say, I’ll let the peanut gallery make the appropriate judgments. > > I don’t think you understand what evidence means. > > Am I to understand that your milkshake is bringing the boys to the yard? 😃 I see you’re getting the message. Good. And this last thing you wrote…it makes no sense, of course. But it may be one of the least dopey things you’ve ever written here. Baby steps, but progress nonetheless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-on-the-grave-of-health-care-reform/527487.md?page=9)