# Dancing School For Pigs. OPEN 24/7. (local sustainability) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056 "2010-07-17T20:05:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/61 "2010-07-23T17:32:28Z")
Don’t…know…why…laughing…so hard… ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/62 "2010-07-23T17:50:33Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Don’t…know…why…laughing…so hard… WAG. You have a sense of humor, given your user name. Anyone who’s tried knows that herding cats is no more productive than teaching pigs to dance. **tomndebb**? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/63 "2010-07-28T21:45:40Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > … So let me ask you, what would YOU be looking at if gas at the pumps went to $6/gal, forever. It’s worse than that but let’s just talk about $6/gal. What’s your best guess? … > [@adhay](#): > > Ahem, **tom** , I’m waiting. How about a comment on my post? … So, **tom**? > [@adhay](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > Don’t…know…why…laughing…so hard… > > WAG. You have a sense of humor, given your user name. > > Anyone who’s tried knows that herding cats is no more productive than teaching pigs to dance. > > **tomndebb**? **tom**? ---
**Author:** ![bullrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@bullrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bullrun)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/64 "2010-07-28T23:14:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > The world as we know it will cease to exist in the next 5-20 years. Whether you doubt that or not, please watch this video, an 82 min documentary, A Crude Awakening. > > If the world is ending in 5 years, I ain’t wasting 82 minutes of the time left watching youtube. Hey…I thought the Mayans said it would end in 2012. Doesn’t anyone stick to one doomsday anymore??? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/65 "2010-07-28T23:41:52Z")
Have you not figured out yet that no one cares or is interested except you? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/66 "2010-07-28T23:46:28Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Have you not figured out yet that no one cares or is interested except you? It’s not that I don’t care. I just feel has failed to state his case clearly, or provide any evidence. All he’s done is say ‘Lookit this video!’ ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/67 "2010-07-29T00:03:52Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > > [@Smeghead](#): > > > > Have you not figured out yet that no one cares or is interested except you? > > It’s not that I don’t care. I just feel has failed to state his case clearly, or provide any evidence. All he’s done is say ‘Lookit this video!’ Well, there was this, also. > [@adhay](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > … > > > > How about this nice graphical presentation? > > > > [The Oil Drum | Oil Production is Reaching its Limit: The Basics of What This Means](http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5969#more) > > > [@](#): > > > > We live in a finite world. It is clear that at some point, we will eventually start hitting limits—we won’t be able to extract as much oil, or we won’t be able to mine as much silver or platinum, or fresh-water aquifers that have built up over millions of years will run dry. > > > > We are reaching limits in several areas, but the one I would like to talk about here is oil production. Oil is essential, because **nearly all transportation depends on oil, and because a huge number of goods use oil in their manufacture (including textiles, pharmaceuticals, pesticides, asphalt, plastics, lubricating oils, and computers). Oil is also essential for our current agricultural system–growing food and transporting it to market.** > > [bolding mine] > > The author presents a series of graphs of many oil variables (discovery, production, price, etc) against economic factors (credit, GDP, etc) over time and reaches the following conclusion. > > > [@](#): > > > > My personal view is that the main task we should be focusing on now is how to move to a much simpler system—one that depends mostly on locally grown food and locally manufactured goods. This will likely mean a much lower standard of living. Limiting population should probably be a goal, because it will be easier to have enough for all if there are fewer mouths to feed. > > > > I do not see climate change legislation as terribly helpful. Cap and trade will add huge overhead to the system—something we really cannot afford right now. Peak oil is likely to mean a continuing major recession, and a natural decline in fossil fuel use. To me, we would be better off spending our resources developing local agriculture and local manufacturing, and perhaps even sailing ships. > > This is the best presentation of the problem I have ever seen. I have downloaded it and plan to turn it into a slide show. It’s a natural pair with A Crude Awakening. > > The download includes the comments on the article which contain a wealth of insight and personal expertise. Worth price of admission in itself. > > If it’s too much trouble for you to spend some time with something so easily obtainable and so informative on the major single issue facing you and the world today, you might want to stop in at my Pig Singing School. > > BTW, it’s a joke. > > [Comedy Central The Daily Show Fan Page](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-june-17-2010/fred-thompson) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/68 "2010-07-29T02:07:29Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Well, there was this, also. You seem to have quoted yourself. I don’t care enough to figure out why this is supposed to mean other people than yourself care about this. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/69 "2010-07-29T05:15:04Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Well, there was this, also. > > … I don’t care enough to figure out why this is supposed to mean other people than yourself care about this. Aim for coherency. Besides, my response was directed to **Doc** , not you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/70 "2010-07-30T02:13:40Z")
> [@bullrun](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > > > The world as we know it will cease to exist in the next 5-20 years. Whether you doubt that or not, please watch this video, an 82 min documentary, A Crude Awakening. > > > > If the world is ending in 5 years, I ain’t wasting 82 minutes of the time left watching youtube. > > Hey…I thought the Mayans said it would end in 2012. Doesn’t anyone stick to one doomsday anymore??? Whatever, we’re all doomed either way. So then, let’s all start drinking heavily, fire up our gas guzzlers and party hearty. What the hell, we’re all gonna die soon anyway 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/71 "2010-07-30T02:33:17Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Besides, my response was directed to **Doc** , not you. If you have any interest in winning your point, your responses should be directed to all readers. Simply because you were responding directly to **DocCathode** does not mean that your response will not be read and judged by **Smeghead** , or me, or anyone else following the thread, or any random passerby. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/72 "2010-07-30T05:22:29Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Besides, my response was directed to **Doc** , not you. > > If you have any interest in winning your point, your responses should be directed to all readers. Simply because you were responding directly to **DocCathode** does not mean that your response will not be read and judged by **Smeghead** , or me, or anyone else following the thread, or any random passerby. Why don’t YOU respond to the cite in my response? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/73 "2010-08-03T21:18:48Z")
**Frank**? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/74 "2010-08-03T23:04:37Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > In a previous thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567501&highlight=adhay](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567501&highlight=adhay), I said that teaching (here to Dopers but anywhere, The Dope has no corner on pigness, need I remake my point) that our global collapse as a species, now afloat on unsustainable debt and 'cheap oil, is _inevitable and immanent_, is much like teaching pigs to dance. Uh…you may be right about oil, and certainly unsustainable practices and overpopulation are much bigger problems than many people can bring themselves to admit. But _immanent_ is a real word and [I don’t think it means what you think it means](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immanent). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/75 "2010-08-03T23:41:07Z")
By the way **adhay** , if you wish to debate **tomndebb** ’s modding, that belongs in a whole separate forum, which may be why your pleas for his attention have gone unanswered. That or he thought it didn’t merit a reply the _first_ time. I’m not going to watch any video on by computer - even if it _had_ speakers. However I am curious - what can I, personally, do for local sustainability. Allow me to lay out some facts: I live in an apartment. I am not allowed to modify it. I do not have a large patch of lawn available to start farming in - neither me or anybody else around, as we live in a _city_. I cannot talk my walmart into growing its food and DVDs locally. So. I could buy a bicycle -and certainly will if it starts looking like the gas stations are going to go tits up- thus I will have self-sustaining personal transportation during the 3/4 of the year that the weather is suitable for biking in. But besides that, what else do you expect me to do? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/76 "2010-08-03T23:58:25Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > In a previous thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567501&highlight=adhay](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567501&highlight=adhay), I said that teaching (here to Dopers but anywhere, The Dope has no corner on pigness, need I remake my point) that our global collapse as a species, now afloat on unsustainable debt and 'cheap oil, is _inevitable and immanent_, is much like teaching pigs to dance. > > Uh…you may be right about oil, and certainly unsustainable practices and overpopulation are much bigger problems than many people can bring themselves to admit. But _immanent_ is a real word and [I don’t think it means what you think it means](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immanent). Typo. Imminent. Don’t look down and breathe. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/77 "2010-08-04T00:11:27Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > By the way **adhay** , if you wish to debate **tomndebb** ’s modding, that belongs in a whole separate forum, which may be why your pleas for his attention have gone unanswered. That or he thought it didn’t merit a reply the _first_ time. Actually, I called him out as an ETA poster and asked him to speculate on what his life would look like on $6 gas. Near as I can tell, he has nothing to say but no. That’s his modding style, also. > [@](#): > > … However I am curious - what can I, personally, do for local sustainability. Allow me to lay out some facts: … But besides that, what else do you expect me to do? Move to an area that offers some hope for local sustainability. I don’t expect it of you, it’s a lot to ask of anyone with an abiding faith in Cheap Oil Forever, Truth, Justice and the American Way, ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/78 "2010-08-04T17:38:59Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > By the way **adhay** , if you wish to debate **tomndebb** ’s modding, that belongs in a whole separate forum, which may be why your pleas for his attention have gone unanswered. That or he thought it didn’t merit a reply the _first_ time. > > Actually, I called him out as an ETA poster and asked him to speculate on what his life would look like on $6 gas. Near as I can tell, he has nothing to say but no. That’s his modding style, also. Nobody is obligated to respond to your requests for anything, despite your lofty position as center of the universe. Sorry. > [@adhay](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > … However I am curious - what can I, personally, do for local sustainability. Allow me to lay out some facts: … But besides that, what else do you expect me to do? > > Move to an area that offers some hope for local sustainability. I don’t expect it of you, it’s a lot to ask of anyone with an abiding faith in Cheap Oil Forever, Truth, Justice and the American Way, Err, no - that’s a lot to ask of anyone, period, full stop, finito, end of discussion. It doesn’t matter if I’m addicted to the sweet sweet flavor of oil rolling across my tongue, or if I’m a virulent oilophobe who sets fire to every car I see - either way asking me to uproot my life and discard my job and income is **absurd**. Especially since you haven’t even _begun_ to make a coherent case that it’s even necessary! Hey **adhay** , I think there’s a chance a meteor will fall on your town, so you’d better move. Don’t waste my time asking me to prove it - just move! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/79 "2010-08-04T19:08:24Z")
> [@Adhay](#): > > We are headed for a global depression the likes of which the world has never seen. When gas and food prices start rising indefinitely and tourist dollars disappear from [your neighborhood (YN)'s economy, AND THEY WILL, local sustainable agriculture and a well-developed local food distribution infrastructure will be an absolute necessity. That said, I’m giving the following as wide a distribution as I can. I suggest you do too. I thought you were going to recommend investing in GOLD! “That’s the sound of GOLD. That’s the sound of security.” > [@adhay](#): > > 1. And here we are. Seems like no matter where I go, there I am. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056/80 "2010-08-04T23:49:28Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > By the way **adhay** , if you wish to debate **tomndebb** ’s modding, that belongs in a whole separate forum, which may be why your pleas for his attention have gone unanswered. That or he thought it didn’t merit a reply the _first_ time. > > Actually, I called him out as an ETA poster and asked him to speculate on what his life would look like on $6 gas. Not that different from the way it is now, in my opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-school-for-pigs-open-24-7-local-sustainability/547056.md?page=5)