# Dancing with the Stars Fall 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101 "2011-08-25T23:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/261 "2011-10-25T17:30:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Louis Van Amstel’s blog and comments on the dances. > [http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/louis-van-amstel-dancing-stars-dish-week-6-122003809.html](http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/louis-van-amstel-dancing-stars-dish-week-6-122003809.html) > > Louis won a lot of Championships and coached several of the dwts pros early in their careers. He’d make a good replacement for Len someday. From Louis’ blog: [QUOTE=Louis Van Amstel] As a pro, if you talk back to the judges it always makes you look like the bad guy, even if you’re right. I’m not saying I agree with Maks tonight, because I actually don’t. Len never really explained why he said Maks was part of the problem, because he cut Len off. These discussions, in my opinion, are good because this was real. But, often times, Len blurts out statements that are so fabricated. I wish it was always real. [/quote] That’s how I feel a lot of times about the judging… there seems to be this weird disconnect between the dance, the scores other dancers got, and the judge’s comments. It DOES feel “phoned in” a lot of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/262 "2011-10-25T18:20:28Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > None, AFAIK – the “head judge” just means that he’s the one who has actual experience judging dancing competitions, I think. I didn’t really think the title meant much. So far the only thing I notice is that he’s the one who’s been picking the encore dance during the results show. Anyway, getting back to the dancing, Chaz was not too happy about the low scores. This is only the second or third season I’ve watched, but I don’t remember anybody getting this bent out of shape, and I’m including the celebrities who argue with the judges. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/263 "2011-10-26T01:28:43Z")
Who is Corbin Blue, and why did they build an entire number around him if he can’t carry a tune? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/264 "2011-10-26T01:56:06Z")
They didn’t introduce the high school kids with Corbin Blue? Nor did they introduce the young kids in the Halloween dance? There must be a reason those kids were selected for dwts. Were they inner city kids? Or from broken homes? There’s always a sob story. Never heard of Corbin Blue. He needs to stick with dancing. He can’t sing. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/265 "2011-10-26T02:01:56Z")
Yes!!! Chaz is finally gone. We’ve seen too many good dancers leave while he stayed and tried to dance. He just didn’t have the talent ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/266 "2011-10-26T03:21:25Z")
I think J.R. almost dances like a pro. I hated to see Chaz eliminated but it was inevitable. His parting words were stellar. The guy who sang 42nd Street—I didn’t think that song could be ruined, but he did it. It calls for staccato and energy. It’s not a ballad. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/267 "2011-10-26T13:04:37Z")
Yeah, big ol’ “phew” on the last of Chaz (whose mother visited exactly once, compared to, oh, Courteney Cox, Jamie Lee Curtis, and other equally big stars who were there week after week, both for performance shows and results shows, but whatever). Now if we can just get rid of the brace of bitches, Nancy and Hope, we can finish off this season in style. Go JR! ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/268 "2011-10-26T13:19:41Z")
Chaz’s complaining about how overweight women are given a pass, but overweight men are not, and his bitterness at being thought a fat little troll with a princess suggest that he really doesn’t get how lenient the judges were with him, or how much he’d been supported by the audience (or how much he’s looked like a fat little troll dancing with a princess). Overweight women have been rare on this show, and have never been given much of a pass - this show tends to demand a much higher level of performance from its female contestants than its male, probably because it’s easier for the female pros to conceal the flaws of their partners. Also, guys willing to dance seem so rare here in the U.S. that we tend to expect and appreciate a much lower level of competence from them. Chaz got an enormous amount of mileage out of just showing up and trying. By rights, he should have been off the show either the first or second week. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/269 "2011-10-26T13:25:11Z")
Since Chaz raised the question of weight…it seems like overweight women on the show, if they stick around long enough, drop pounds in spectacular fashion (Ricki Lake has lost 20 already, and Kirstie Alley probably lost twice that). It doesn’t look to me like Chaz has changed shape at all. One wonders how much work he put in. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/270 "2011-10-26T13:39:14Z")
I’m glad the judges have avoided giving J.R.tens week after week. That mistake happened with Mark & Sabrina Bryan in the 5th season. She got a perfect 30 week 4. There was a shocking elimination week 6. Fans are weird sometimes. They thought she was too good. So far they’ve done a good job packaging J.R. He’s shown steady improvement week by week. He’s been beaten some weeks by Ricki. J.R. doesn’t look like he’s blowing everyone away. I have a hunch he’s drawing huge fan votes. A lot still can happen. Karina was injured this week. Ricki and her both needed cortisone shots to dance. Hopefully that won’t be an issue for too long. > [@Becky2844](#): > > I think J.R. almost dances like a pro. > \ ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/271 "2011-10-26T13:39:20Z")
**Oy!** - And remember a few seasons ago, Kyle Massey made it to the finals, and he was a very round kid. He could really dance. But he was expected to improve each week and to get out there adn really dance. StG ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/272 "2011-10-26T13:44:25Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > **Oy!** - And remember a few seasons ago, Kyle Massey made it to the finals, and he was a very round kid. He could really dance. But he was expected to improve each week and to get out there adn really dance. > > StG Yes, he had a buttload of natural (or previously taught) talent, and worked like a dog on the show. An excellent example of how good an overweight guy can be. For that matter, it looked like Lacey’s dad could blow any of the contestants off the stage. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/273 "2011-10-26T17:43:20Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The judging this season has been way out of whack. Agreed. Didn’t Chynna forget the dance but still got a 24? But then again, when it comes to who stays and who goes, the judges’ scores count for very little. After Maks outburst, Len should have gone up to him during the results show, given him 5 pounds to start his own C-celebrity dancing show, kicked him out of the competition and given Hope her choice of any of the male professional that have been booted to prepare for next week. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/274 "2011-10-26T18:20:22Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Chaz’s complaining about how overweight women are given a pass, but overweight men are not, and his bitterness at being thought a fat little troll with a princess suggest that he really doesn’t get how lenient the judges were with him, or how much he’d been supported by the audience (or how much he’s looked like a fat little troll dancing with a princess). Overweight women have been rare on this show, and have never been given much of a pass - this show tends to demand a much higher level of performance from its female contestants than its male, probably because it’s easier for the female pros to conceal the flaws of their partners. Also, guys willing to dance seem so rare here in the U.S. that we tend to expect and appreciate a much lower level of competence from them. > > Chaz got an enormous amount of mileage out of just showing up and trying. By rights, he should have been off the show either the first or second week. Overweight women given a pass? I don’t think so! In real life overweight MEN are given much more of a pass than overweight women, and in this show a couple of overweight men have gone pretty far, too. If he didn’t want to be overweight, that’s kind of his choice. Actually I guess if he wanted to be an overweight MAN, that was kind of his choice too. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/275 "2011-10-26T18:33:37Z")
I think Maks had a perfectly valid point, and that is that some contestants are graded on a curve, while others are graded straight. Were they ALL graded on a curve, JR and Ricki would have gotten straight 10s because relative to the rest of the pack, they kicked ass. But…because they are unofficially placed into another echelon of dancers, they are judged much more stringently. That’s the only explanation why JR didn’t get straight 10s, because it’s only the trained eye (Len) that would catch some errant ball change error. Given Hope’s utter lack of musicality and experience, she should be given the same leniency in scoring as Chaz, Carson, David, Rob and Nancy. However, because she LOOKS like she should have more potential (e.g. she’s not out of shape or has two left feet), they seem to be grading her against JR and Ricki. And it’s not fair. That explains Maks’ “heal lead” complaint. (Even though he’s an egomaniac, even he was too polite to say what he was really feeling, which is, “How can you idiots possibly justify giving Hope a lower score than Chaz?” I also think that Bruno deserves to be criticized for calling Chaz a penguin and a Hobbit, etc. Bruno is a breath of fresh air, but he has a cruel streak that he should temper. On a side note, the comment that made me bristle the most was when Nancy Grace was complaining about the difficulty of the group dance. She said, “We celebs aren’t used to this kind of thing.” Yeah, you’re a “celeb,” Nancy. Too bad even the affable Irish dude thinks you’re a mean-spirited bitch. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/276 "2011-10-26T19:41:18Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Given Hope’s utter lack of musicality and experience, she should be given the same leniency in scoring as Chaz, Carson, David, Rob and Nancy. However, because she LOOKS like she should have more potential (e.g. she’s not out of shape or has two left feet), they seem to be grading her against JR and Ricki. And it’s not fair. I don’t think she’s getting graded against JR & Ricki. If there are “curve tiers” (which I don’t quite agree with), I think she’s been grouped with David, Rob, and Nancy, all of whom have musicality and technique issues. Over the course of the show, the three of them have gotten better faster than she has. One thing that I will give her, she doesn’t know how to perform - not in front of a camera, not in her packages, and not while she’s dancing. David’s a performer from a multi-generational performing family. Rob’s been around reality tv cameras, knows how to play that audience, and has adapted some of that to his dancing. Nancy makes her living in front of a camera, making people react to her (usually negatively, but still getting a reaction), and she’s used some of that in her dances. Hope doesn’t seem to have performance skills, either. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/277 "2011-10-26T19:50:49Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I think Maks had a perfectly valid point, and that is that some contestants are graded on a curve, while others are graded straight. … (Even though he’s an egomaniac, even he was too polite to say what he was really feeling, which is, “How can you idiots possibly justify giving Hope a lower score than Chaz?” You do make some valid points. I don’t know what Maks hoped to gain, though, by inciting the audience to boo Len (and his “my show” comment only served to piss off everyone else involved in the show). A professional would’ve taken his concerns about the scoring to Len off-camera. A douchebag would’ve done what Maks did. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/278 "2011-10-26T21:18:40Z")
The whole booing thing NEEDS to stop. I know they do it on other vote/reality shows, but it’s just so tacky and disturbing in this one. The audience doesn’t save their booing for invalid critique, either, they just lay it onto anything negative. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/279 "2011-10-27T17:14:47Z")
My question is what does the judges score matter? I know they changed so that DWTS could get out of the American Idol pit i.e. the results depending solely on popularity and not talent but if so, then explain Elissabetta’s departure with a 21 which beat out four others that week or Kristen with a 24 going home when Chaz had an 18? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/280 "2011-10-27T17:46:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My question is what does the judges score matter? I know they changed so that DWTS could get out of the American Idol pit i.e. the results depending solely on popularity and not talent but if so, then explain Elissabetta’s departure with a 21 which beat out four others that week or Kristen with a 24 going home when Chaz had an 18? The conclusion I drew from those data points: nobody in the viewing public voted for Elisabetta or Kristen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101.md?page=15)