# Dancing with the Stars Fall 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101 "2011-08-25T23:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/281 "2011-10-27T18:09:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My question is what does the judges score matter? I know they changed so that DWTS could get out of the American Idol pit i.e. the results depending solely on popularity and not talent but if so, then explain Elissabetta’s departure with a 21 which beat out four others that week or Kristen with a 24 going home when Chaz had an 18? The last time I looked at the scoring (which was some time ago, but I don’t think they’ve changed it), the judges’ scores were converted into percentages and that is added to the audience score for a final total. So, the week that Elizabetta was eliminated, the scores were: ```auto Couple Judges' Score Converted Score Ricki & Derek 23 10.3 Kristin & Mark 22 9.9 J.R. & Karina 22 9.9 Elisabetta & Val 21 9.4 Rob & Cheryl 21 9.4 Chynna & Tony 21 9.4 Nancy & Tristan 21 9.4 Hope & Maks 19 8.5 David & Kym 18 8.1 Carson & Anna 18 8.1 Chaz & Lacey 17 7.6 ``` so if 2% more people voted for Chaz than for Elisabetta (which wouldn’t be at all surprising), then he stays and she goes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/282 "2011-10-27T19:20:17Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > The last time I looked at the scoring (which was some time ago, but I don’t think they’ve changed it), the judges’ scores were converted into percentages and that is added to the audience score for a final total. > > So, the week that Elizabetta was eliminated, the scores were: > > ```auto > > Couple Judges' Score Converted Score > Ricki & Derek 23 10.3 > Kristin & Mark 22 9.9 > J.R. & Karina 22 9.9 > Elisabetta & Val 21 9.4 > Rob & Cheryl 21 9.4 > Chynna & Tony 21 9.4 > Nancy & Tristan 21 9.4 > Hope & Maks 19 8.5 > David & Kym 18 8.1 > Carson & Anna 18 8.1 > Chaz & Lacey 17 7.6 > > ``` > > so if 2% more people voted for Chaz than for Elisabetta (which wouldn’t be at all surprising), then he stays and she goes. And this scoring system is flawed because the judges scores seem to have a 15 point minimum. Has anyone ever gotten a 4 or lower no matter how bad their dance was? What this does is homogenizes the scores so that everyone gets a similar score so that popularity and name regonition outweighs the actual performance. Look at your same chart accounting for the 15 point minimum score: Couple Judges’ Score Converted Score Percent Ricki & Derek 23 8 13.8 Kristin & Mark 22 7 12.1 J.R. & Karina 22 7 12.1 Elisabetta & Val 21 6 10.3 Rob & Cheryl 21 6 10.3 Chynna & Tony 21 6 10.3 Nancy & Tristan 21 6 10.3 Hope & Maks 19 4 6.9 David & Kym 18 3 5.2 Carson & Anna 18 3 5.2 Chaz & Lacey 17 2 3.4 I think those percentages offer a more realistic outcome in that Chaz would have needed 7% more of the vote to leapfrog her and that the bottom four are all within 2.5% of each other. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/283 "2011-10-28T08:14:56Z")
Man, what an excruciating week. I’m hoping that it can only get better from here, but I’m not holding my breath. Glad that Chaz is out, but much like Bristol Palin and Cloris Leachman, it comes too late to be very satisfying. He’s cracked if he thinks he can play the martyr card, especially after outlasting Chynna Philips and Carson Kressley. Savor your moment in the spotlight and move on. And get a real job. Don’t really see what Hope’s problem is. Has she ever been last? No? Then the underscoring and nasty judges’ comments _have not hurt her_. As they say in basketball, no harm, no foul. And let’s be honest, she’s lasted way longer than she probably should have. If you want to quit, quit; otherwise, be grateful to be there and quit whining about stuff that doesn’t matter. And I’m _very_ surprised that there’s any outcry over JR not getting lots of 10s yet, especially after all the talk about having to “give room to grow”. In fact, it looks to me that the judges _want_ him to make the final and are absolutely TERRIFIED of him getting knocked out short of the finish line. This is not an unfounded fear. Remember, how last man standing normally works is that everyone starts the next round in the same positions they finished the last one in. In reality TV, however, nothing carries over, and the voters thinking that “he’s safe” is the **kiss of death**. As long as there is any possibility of this for JR, the judges are going to lowball him and make sure that his supporters stay hungry. When he’s _truly_ safe, i.e. in the final, then they can get completely objective. Or spread the 30’s around and leave it up to the voters. Either or. Feyrat - Oh, good, you noticed too. Y’know, the thing I really hate about this is that it’s so _mindless_. (“Pavlovian”, I think the term is.) It’s the equivalent of blabbering “Chuck Norris” or “This is SPARTA!” or “over nine thousaaaaaand” on a message board. It’s an utterly empty statement. Why not just assume booworthiness\* and try to come up with something clever? - Was not intending to invent a new reality TV term in this post. No idea if this has legs. Go ahead and use it if you like. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/284 "2011-10-28T14:56:32Z")
[Did Kim Kardashian rig the voting?](http://bit.ly/stWTbD) ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/285 "2011-10-29T00:04:16Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > [Did Kim Kardashian rig the voting?](http://bit.ly/stWTbD) Kim Kardashian…has 10.7 million followers? **head explodes** ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/286 "2011-10-29T03:19:42Z")
There’s crazy talk about this getting Rob disqualified. :rolleyes: I swear if they drag Chaz back I’ll burn the frigging tv before I watch dwts again. Chaz has done nothing for the past few days except bitch and cry about being called an Ewok and Penguin. Oh, the agony of it all. 😛 I hope they leave well enough alone. Read the riot act to the remaining celebrities and move on. Rob didn’t pull this stupid stunt himself. > **[Kim Kardashian tweets fake Justin Bieber phone number for ‘Dancing With the...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/celebritology/post/kim-kardashian-tweets-fake-justin-bieber-phone-number-for-dancing-with-the-stars-votes/2011/10/28/gIQAtjsXPM_blog.html)** > > The reality TV person was actually tweeting the phone number that votes for her brother, Rob. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/287 "2011-10-29T05:42:20Z")
I’ll bet they wouldn’t DQ Rob because of this. Hey, controversy! Ink! Pixels! Nothing like a bit of controversy–the producers love it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/288 "2011-10-30T16:22:13Z")
I’m hoping the Halloween special will be a lot of fun. Dwts works best when it doesn’t take itself too seriously. It’s camp and over the top silly fun. Strictly Come Dancing was on last night and they pulled out all the Halloween effects. Even the rehearsal packages were crammed with them. It was silly and over the top fun. I had so much fun watching it. Len and Bruno were much nicer. I hope they bring that attitude with them to dwts Halloween party. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/289 "2011-10-30T19:29:26Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I think Maks had a perfectly valid point, and that is that some contestants are graded on a curve, while others are graded straight. Were they ALL graded on a curve, JR and Ricki would have gotten straight 10s because relative to the rest of the pack, they kicked ass. But…because they are unofficially placed into another echelon of dancers, they are judged much more stringently. That’s the only explanation why JR didn’t get straight 10s, because it’s only the trained eye (Len) that would catch some errant ball change error. > > Given Hope’s utter lack of musicality and experience, she should be given the same leniency in scoring as Chaz, Carson, David, Rob and Nancy. However, because she LOOKS like she should have more potential (e.g. she’s not out of shape or has two left feet), they seem to be grading her against JR and Ricki. And it’s not fair. That explains Maks’ “heal lead” complaint. (Even though he’s an egomaniac, even he was too polite to say what he was really feeling, which is, “How can you idiots possibly justify giving Hope a lower score than Chaz?” > > I also think that Bruno deserves to be criticized for calling Chaz a penguin and a Hobbit, etc. Bruno is a breath of fresh air, but he has a cruel streak that he should temper. > > On a side note, the comment that made me bristle the most was when Nancy Grace was complaining about the difficulty of the group dance. She said, “We celebs aren’t used to this kind of thing.” Yeah, you’re a “celeb,” Nancy. Too bad even the affable Irish dude thinks you’re a mean-spirited bitch. I don’t know yet how to reply to just a portion of a post…much less several all at once…maybe somebody could tell me? 😕 re the penguin name-calling, I just wanted to add that in one of Chaz’s numerous previous interviews he said that he’s still taking hormones for the transgender-ness and that they pack a lot of weight on him. And I want to echo DKW’s sentiments—“there’s no crying in baseball.” ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/290 "2011-10-31T07:10:53Z")
Haven’t heard anything new on the vote rigging thing; it seems to have flamed out. Good. The whole elimination process is so profoundly dishonest that a bit of chicanery is really nothing. And at any rate, there’s enough badwill without bringing Chaz back. If anything, it’s nice to see Kim sticking up for her brother, especially after all the crap I heard he has to put up with in that family. Halloween night, huh? Should be a nice change of pace, at least. Really hope I don’t actually hear The Devil Went Down To Georgia. That one’s just a bit too awkward. Man, people keep agreeing with me in this thread. I don’t know whether to feel flattered or creeped out. Maybe both, just to be safe. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/291 "2011-10-31T19:03:58Z")
Well really, how many of KK’s 10.7 million Twitter followers would actually be dumb enough to think that was really Justin Bieber’s 800 number? I probably don’t really want to know the answer to this. Also, I loved the penguin line. Sometimes I really love Bruno. Is it just my perception or has he gotten more and more OTT as the seasons have progressed? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/292 "2011-10-31T20:51:19Z")
I’ll be curious to see if Tom refers to the brouhaha tonight. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/293 "2011-11-01T00:59:31Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Halloween night, huh? Should be a nice change of pace, at least. Really hope I don’t actually hear The Devil Went Down To Georgia. That one’s just a bit too awkward. Yow, you caused that. Yikes. I almost felt bad for Nancy, she so clearly had no hope of getting out of that alive. That was truly painful. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/294 "2011-11-01T01:10:56Z")
Why the hell are they making them tango to songs that cannot possibly be tangoed to? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/295 "2011-11-01T02:15:20Z")
I enjoyed the Halloween special. Some of the music wasn’t appropriate but I thought most of the celebrities coped pretty well. Tristan & Nancy had an impossible job. I can’t see even two pros successfully dancing a jive to that song. J.R. and Karina had a tough song too. I hope voters consider that when they phone and text votes. Well, we know now that Hope can dance when she’s properly taught and not bullied. I thought tonight was her best performance all season. I think now her experience would have been totally different with another pro. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I liked Rob & Cheryl’s dance the best. Team Paso killed it tonight. Much better than Team Tango. Worth noting that Strictly Come Dancing had a lot better music for their Halloween special. Most of it was reasonable for the dances. My prediction is David goes home tomorrow. He did ok tonight, but the dance really didn’t stand out. Nancy is another obvious possibility except she has a stronger fan base. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/296 "2011-11-01T02:22:11Z")
TPTB need to watch Maks’ rehearsal footage. The way he was literally pushing and shoving Hope during the team practice made me cringe. If he was that rough in front of people what the heck is he doing when they are alone? They don’t need bullies training these celebrities. Maks needs a break from DWTS. IMHO. Maybe permanently. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/297 "2011-11-01T04:14:25Z")
What did you think about J.R. and Ricki dancing the same solo and group dances? Was it a big advantage? It was different choreography but the same style. I can’t recall that happening before. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/298 "2011-11-01T04:30:49Z")
Wow, Hope can dance! I think she and Maks may have a personality conflict, because obviously the other guy got much better results–and of course, she mentioned it, several times. Nancy–ugh! Okay, tough dance, tough music, but lift your knees up, move your feet. Yeah, not a good fit with her dancing style (such as it is) at all. The scores for the team dances were only 3 points apart? They should have been much, or at least a LITTLE bit further apart. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/299 "2011-11-01T05:39:38Z")
Bu-bye, Nancy. It’s been nice knowing you. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101/300 "2011-11-01T13:11:15Z")
David and Kym’s cha-cha was just mediocre. I was a bit disappointed; he’d seemed to be getting it in the past couple of weeks. J.R. and Karina demonstrated why Ricki and Derek may just pull this out from under them. It was a mess of a song, totally wrong for Tango, but look what Derek did with their tango from Psycho a few weeks ago. Karina isn’t a bad choreographer, but Derek is a superb one. Nancy and Tristan: it’s fairly obvious that Tristan is about ready to kill her. The total lack of expression on his face as he agreed that she was a fun person said it all. Her jive was a mess, and I was glad. I hope she goes! Tristan should stick around as a pro. Rob and Cheryl’s tango was better, and he looked as good as he’s looked this season. The Addams Family theme wasn’t a great tango back in Season 3, when Joey and Edyta danced to it, and it’s still not a great piece of music for a tango now, but Cheryl made it work quite well. Ricki and Derek did quite a nice paso. I think he was being a little more flamboyant this week than usual to distract from Ricki’s toned down performance due to her injury. I’ve popped a rib a few times myself, and it was very painful, but it wasn’t as bad as what Ricki has. Hope and Maks: as others have already mentioned, having a more compatible teacher made a big difference to Hope. Maks really bullies unnecessarily. If I were asked to be a contestant on the show (which is only slightly more likely than my being raised to godhood in the next thirty seconds), I would stipulate that he not be my instructor. He’s a good choreographer and dancer, and maybe in his own studio he’s a better teacher, but he’s becoming a liability as a pro instructor on the show. The team dances were kind of sad, because all the best choreographers were on Team Paso, and it showed. But no one really disgraced themselves, which is a plus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dancing-with-the-stars-fall-2011/594101.md?page=16)