# Danger of Drones on US. Hijack from Ukraine Invasion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 2, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743 "2024-04-02T14:23:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/61 "2024-04-30T20:42:47Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > [Here is an anti-drone drone](https://afresearchlab.com/technology/paladin-multi-mission-uas/). It has it’s own radar to track enemy drones and some sort of weapon to down them. (Unfortunately labeled “Skynet Payload”. I think people take the wrong message from Terminator.) They don’t say what the weapon is but it sure looks like a gun barrel. Maybe the name implies it’s a net of some sort. Anti-drone drones are not such a bad idea. The Iranian attack a few weeks go got me thinking. All of the Iranian drones were shot down, but they were shot down with missiles, either aircraft and land-based, which are damn expensive. Now, no drone today is faster or more maneuverable than a WW2 fighter plane. So why not create the equivalent of a remote-controlled P-51 Mustang? Instead of intercepting a swarm of drones with expensive missiles, you launch your own swarm of reusable Mustang-drones armed with cheap chain guns, each of which takes down multiple targets before its ammo runs out and it returns to base. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/62 "2024-04-30T21:14:34Z")
I sure hope neither me, my loved ones, or our houses are under the shootdown area, whether from a bullet that misses or under the drone that’s hit & now tumbling out of the sky, cause either one is gonna leave a mark. There’s a 35 mile concentric ring no-fly zone around wherever POTUS/V-POTUS are. There are plenty of clips on YouTube of some Cessna pilot or another busting it & being escorted out by fighters. I don’t believe the military has ever shot down a civilian plane over the US but they definitely updated those plans in the aftermath of 9/11 & it is in the realm of possibilities. Oh great, we saved important one old dude, albeit one with a long succession plan & instead took out a schoolbus full of innocent children. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/63 "2024-05-01T14:12:35Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > They don’t say what the weapon is but it sure looks like a gun barrel. This video describes the “SKYNET payload” as a Benelli M4 shotgun (7 round capacity), which explains the tube magazine beneath the barrel. > **[Paladin](https://www.dvidshub.net/video/912236/paladin)** > > Paladin is a Group‐2 Low Collateral Effects Interceptor (LCEI) designed to defeat Group 1 & 2 small Unmanned Aircraft System (sUAS) threats. It is a fully autonomous “wingman” for security operations with a suite of security missions such as... Apparently “SKYNET” refers to a brand of anti-drone shotgun ammunition, a net-launcher round. So no pellets or birdshot. > **[SKYNET Drone Defense](https://www.maverickdrone.com/products/skynet-drone-defense-3-pack)** > > The Skynet Drone Defense system is designed to down a drone that could be interfering with police investigations. Using 12 gauge rounds as the delivery system, the shells separate into tethered pieces after firing them. As these parts separate and... ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/64 "2024-05-01T14:21:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Now, no drone today is faster or more maneuverable than a WW2 fighter plane. So why not create the equivalent of a remote-controlled P-51 Mustang? Ukraine reportedly shot down a drone with a Yak-52. [According to Wikipedia the YAK-52](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52) was built in the 70’s-90’s as a trainer. Top speed listed at 177 mph. Not a drone, but looks like other people are thinking in the same direction. > > > Angry Cossack @auto\_glam ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/65 "2024-05-01T14:58:43Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Oh great, we saved important one old dude, albeit one with a long succession plan & instead took out a schoolbus full of innocent children. That Paladin system is sized to shoot down hobbyist toys. I’d prefer one not fall on my head, but if it land on the roof of my car it’ll end up with a few scratches that will probably buff out. The thing to complain about is _not_ enemy drones being destroyed overhead. It’s the fact there are enemy drones overhead. That’s the problem that needs fixing. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/66 "2024-05-01T18:57:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > got me thinking. All of the Iranian drones were shot down… with missiles… which are damn expensive. Now, no drone today is faster or more maneuverable than a WW2 fighter plane. So why not create the equivalent of a remote-controlled P-51 Mustang? I’m guessing here: I would assume that a missile has a whole lot of expensive electronics. It needs to identify the enemy drone, communicate with a command center , calculate the drone’s trajectory, maybe lock in on its heat signature, and calculate the missile’s trajectory, calculate the intercept point, and then detonate explosives at the moment of interception. You also need the missile to have, say, twice as much speed as the incoming drone, so it can cover a long distance and catch up with the drone. That may require a jet engine, vs the propeller-driven drone. That may be cheaper than the missiles that were used against the Iranian attack, but it won’t be as cheap as a P-51 Mustang . But I’m just guessing. We need Stranger on a Train for some real info. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/67 "2024-05-01T21:33:06Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > . You also need the missile to have, say, twice as much speed as the incoming drone, so it can cover a long distance and catch up with the drone. That may require a jet engine, vs the propeller-driven drone. > > That may be cheaper than the missiles that were used against the Iranian attack, but it won’t be as cheap as a P-51 Mustang . > But I’m just guessing. It doesn’t have to be that fast: in WW2, Mustangs, Spitfires and Hellcats were regularly intercepting Messerschmitts and Zeros, despite not being significantly faster than them, and the drones we’re trying to intercept are not nearly as fast or nimble as those German or Japanese fighters. Remember, we’re not actually building a Mustang here - we’re building a reusable unmanned drone whose speed, maneuverability and armaments are _equivalent_ to those of a P-51 Mustang. With modern engines, composite materials, avionics and guns, that doesn’t sound like too much of an engineering challenge, nor does it sound very expensive, particularly as, unlike a missile, they can be used over and over again. But who knows? I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/68 "2024-05-01T21:41:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Now, no drone today is faster or more maneuverable than a WW2 fighter plane. The Roadrunner drone from Anduril is probably comparable in speed to a P-51 and more maneuverable: > **[Introducing Roadrunner](https://www.anduril.com/roadrunner/)** > > Roadrunner defines a radical new class of operator-supervised autonomous air vehicles capable of high subsonic speeds, high G-force maneuvers, and VTOL return to base for reuse. They don’t say the speed explicitly, but it’s “high subsonic”. And supports vertical launch/landing. It can only take out one target, but can be reused in case it misses or is called back. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/69 "2024-05-01T22:10:49Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The Roadrunner drone from Anduril is probably comparable in speed to a P-51 and more maneuverable: Unfortunately, the Roadrunner may still be on the wrong side of the need for the bullet to cost less than the thing it targets. A Roadrunner is “[in the low hundreds of thousands of dollars,](https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2023/12/01/anduril-reveals-roadrunner-drone-mum-on-first-us-customer/#:~:text=On%20cost%2C%20Luckey%20said%20a,systems%20at%20a%20higher%20rate.)”, while the Iranian Shahed is as low as $20,000 per drone. I think you need something reusable that fires cheap, but smart, bullets. A P-51 sized drone is probably overkill, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/70 "2024-05-01T22:20:50Z")
I suspect it’ll get cheaper if you buy in bulk. I am mildly surprised that they’re building their own turbojets rather than buying some off-the-shelf engines for RC airplanes. But the rest of it should be pretty typical mass-produced electronics, sensors, etc. And it’s still a lot cheaper than a typical missile. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/71 "2024-05-01T22:25:05Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I am mildly surprised that they’re building their own turbojets rather than buying some off-the-shelf engines for RC airplanes. But the rest of it should be pretty typical mass-produced electronics, sensors, etc. And it’s still a lot cheaper than a typical missile. The Roadrunner was rolled out as a potential base defense system against planes like fighter-bombers. For that use, they are a lot cheaper than the thing they are targeting. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/72 "2024-05-01T22:31:58Z")
Anduril also has their Anvil drone: > **[Anduril](https://www.anduril.com/hardware/anvil/)** > > Transforming US & allied military capabilities with advanced technology. That’s more of a standard quadcopter. Still no explicit top speed, but probably 100-150 mph. They have kinetic and munitions variants. The munitions version could likely take out a Shahed. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/73 "2024-05-01T22:33:55Z")
You’re stuttering. (Anyone get that…?) ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/74 "2024-05-01T22:39:48Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That’s more of a standard quadcopter. Still no explicit top speed, but probably 100-150 mph. They have kinetic and munitions variants. The munitions version could likely take out a Shahed. That’s more in the ballpark of the cost ratio required. I’ve seen top speeds of 200 mph quoted. And it is explicitly marketed for anti-drone defense. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/75 "2024-05-01T23:20:17Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > We need Stranger on a Train for some real info. Yes, he always writes a mini-book that emphatically solves/ends the thread. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/76 "2024-05-01T23:30:45Z")
If you’re asking for his input, use the @ format with his username. Bolding doesn’t do anything and is a cultural holdover from VBulletin. It’s been 4 years this month since we moved over to Discourse. past time to learn about your no-longer-new home. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/77 "2024-05-02T00:37:52Z")
Anti-drone warfare has to be a layered concept. What’s coming at you has to be identified, tracked, and terminated at a reasonable point. Is it a large drone (older fighter fitted with remote controls)? A short range quadcopter? Bigger with a prop, or a turbo jet? They come at you in all sizes, speeds, and directions. What are you protecting: a city, airbase, single building, a tank, missile launcher, bridge, refinery, individual person giving a speech or in transit? On defense, we have varieties of semi to incredibly expensive ground/sea launched missiles. These should be for the fast mover drones and ones that can maneuver. Fighter jets have an array of slightly less expensive missiles in the IR spectrum and expensive radar guided missiles. Yes, they still have a gun but not much practice aiming and you have the debris problem from a close in explosion. We have ground gun systems like the Gepard and follow on systems. A good match expense wise but range is a problem. Anti-drone drones would have to be matched to the target. They’d need a flight envelope and defeat system (gun, warhead, etc…) matched to the target(s). Extensive anti-drone jamming has variable effectiveness - a real cat and mouse situation where both sides have to rapidly change tactics and react. Electronic warfare with high power radars, microwaves and lasers are feasible but have their own shortcomings. I’m just touching on some of the problems/situations). This stuff is hard and failures are expensive and deadly. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/78 "2024-05-02T01:08:26Z")
Is there a land-based, tracked maybe [CIWS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-in_weapon_system#:~:text=A%20close%2Din%20weapon%20system,mounted%20on%20a%20naval%20ship.) out there? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743/79 "2024-05-02T01:31:31Z")
Here’s a listing of those systems and the country developing it. > **[C-RAM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-RAM)** > > Counter rocket, artillery, and mortar, abbreviated C-RAM or counter-RAM, is a set of systems used to detect and/or destroy incoming rockets, artillery, and mortars before they hit their targets, or provide early warning. > The 20mm Land-Based Phalanx Weapon System (also called Centurion C-RAM) is a land-based variant of the U.S. Navy's Phalanx close-in weapon system, a radar-controlled rapid-fire gun for close-in protection of vessels from missiles. Both use a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) cam... Article also touches on Directed Energy research and developments. United States: Land-Based Phalanx Weapon System Israel: Iron Dome Germany: MANTIS Air Defence System Germany: Skynex Italy: Porcupine Italy: DRACO China: LD-2000 Netherlands: Goalkeeper Russia: AK-630 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/danger-of-drones-on-us-hijack-from-ukraine-invasion-thread/999743.md?page=3)