# Dangers of microwave ovens **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 6, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727 "2005-05-06T18:29:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/21 "2005-05-09T18:18:20Z")
No, because he would then be describing a system, in this case an antenna and amplifier for ionizing radiation, that has never been theorized, much less found, in the human body and isn’t even necessary for the fears of potential damage to be valid. A microwave oven already has a very powerful amplifier and we know that the human body (or a frozen burritos) is sensitive to its effects. Postulating a new mechanism where none is needed is the province of pseudoscience and, as Cecil is a pseudoscientist’s worst nightmare, I’m sticking with my assumption that Ed transcribed it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![grg88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@grg88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grg88)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/22 "2005-05-09T19:05:38Z")
Cecil seems to think the effects of microwaves have only recently been under scrutiny. Oh, contraire. Very very detailed studies have been done. Scientists spent most of the 1950’s subjecting various substances to a broad spectrum of microwaves. There are whole books full of jaggedy graphs of the interaction of microwaves and water, inorganic chemicals, organic chemicals, and whatnot. ( See: http:// [physics.nist.gov/](http://physics.nist.gov/) PhysRefData/MolSpec/Diatomic/Html/sec3.html ). The whole thing is so un-mysterious, they’re able to come up with mathematical models that predict most of the measured jagglies. What they found is there are certain frequencies at which certain chemicals resonate with the microwaves. Which gets them hot. But your home microwave oven just sits there pushing out only one frequency, around 2400 MHz, said frequecy chosen for its high absorption by water molecules. * * * Another point of note is that microwaves are waay down the frequency scale, much lower than light or even infrared. This is significant as the energy per particle is directly proportional to the frequency. So each photon of light is over 10,000 times as energetic as a photon of microwave radiation. It’s really hard to postulate how a foodstuff or chemical that stands up to sunlight can be harmed by 1 / 10,000th the energy per particle. ---
**Author:** ![jimbobboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jimbobboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbobboy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/23 "2005-05-09T20:17:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What he means is that the boom box picks up on and amplifies the radio wave signal. It’s conceivable that there might be some structure in a human body or a foodstuff or whatever that might be analogous to an antenna, and therefore be sensitive to radio waves. A good reply, **Chronos,** but I’m with **dropzone** on this one. A boombox detects faint signals of one kind, then amplifies and processes them to deliver strong signals of another kind. I am straining to imagine some biological process for which this might be a useful analogy – sounds to ossicular movement to acoustic nerve impulses? – and finding it hard to believe that this is what the Master meant. The boombox still seems an unfortunate example, and an error in transcription the best explanation. This whole area is one (of many) where intuition is an unreliable guide. For example, **fuzs** was only stating what many people consider obvious with the following: > [@](#): > > It doesn’t have to be at the same frequency to be bad for you. It’s still transmitting RF energy right into your head. On the other hand, **engineer\_comp\_geek** had it right with > [@](#): > > Less than a watt goes into heating up your brain. As an example, here is one [study](http://pages.britishlibrary.net/orange/aust_equiv_nrpb_info.htm) in which a conservative model predicted absorption of 2-3 W/kg (Watts per kilogram) for 1W output (that’s 4x typical radiated power for a GSM cell phone). Since 4 W/kg corresponds to a 1 deg. K temperature rise, the typical peak rise will be 0.5 to 0.75 deg. K. That’s well under the safety limit for active implantable medical devices (pacemakers, etc.), but I was surprised to see that it might be even this high. Still and all, there’s not much call to get excited about cell phone radiation when a [walk outdoors](http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/solartechnote.html) will expose you to anywhere from 35 to 100 times the level of irradiance (0.2 mW/cm^2) permitted for cell phones. On the topic of how much this has been studied, **grg88** is right. There is a ton of info to be had. Some might find the plots [here](http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/microwave.html) to be of particular interest. Scroll down to Figure 1, and you will see that the peak energy adsorption for water happens at about 3.5 cm wavelength, or 8.5 GHz, not the 12 cm and 2.4 GHz used in microwave ovens. Why? > [@](#): > > This is so that the radiation is not totally adsorbed by the first layer of water it encounters and may penetrate further into the foodstuff, heating it more evenly; unabsorbed radiation passing through is mostly reflected back, due to the design of the microwave oven, and absorbed on later passes. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/24 "2005-05-12T16:28:37Z")
> [@](#): > > A boombox detects faint signals of one kind, then amplifies and processes them to deliver strong signals of another kind. I am straining to imagine some biological process for which this might be a useful analogy - You might want to look up ‘hormones’ and what they do. It’s easy to find examples of hormones which carry a very faint signal, which is then amplified and processed by a particular part of the body to produce stronger signals of another kind. I’m not current enough on my endocrinology to give a good example, but I’m sure any MD here can think of one. Alternatively, my vision system can take very faint EM signals, process them, and deliver strong nerve impulse signals. It is \*conceivable \*that hormones are relevant to cell phone concerns. For instance, it is possible even slightly heating up relevant portions of the hypothalamus, thyroid, or whatever might lead to increased production or release of various hormones, or increased nerve signals that trigger widespread physiological changes. I’m not saying this is a likely effect of cell phones, just that it is possible. ---
**Author:** ![jimbobboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jimbobboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbobboy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/25 "2005-05-12T16:58:44Z")
> [@](#): > > You might want to look up ‘hormones’ and what they do. Hmmm … “hormones”? OK, I’m looking them up … nope, not here … Oh, wait, here they are! I found them under “clumsy sarcasm.” Gimme a break, **Quercus.** I’ll stick by my statement that the boombox is an unfortunate example, both because an awfully strained interpretation of the words “harmonically attuned” is required to get from Cecil’s metaphor to any realistic biological mechanism (including the one you postulate) having “disruptive effects”, and because, as you and **dropzone** have both said, no such mechanism has been identified. “But wait”, I can almost hear someone say, “couldn’t you interpret the boombox metaphor _thusly,_ and couldn’t _A, B or C_ happen as a result?” Sure, anything you say. But the point of Cecil’s column, and of this thread, was to distinguish between speculation and facts. And when I _really_ need to be frightened, the numerous scary factual things in this world just don’t leave me any time for the speculative ones ---
**Author:** ![grg88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@grg88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grg88)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/26 "2005-05-12T18:29:50Z")
It is \*conceivable \*that hormones are relevant to cell phone concerns. For instance, it is possible even slightly heating up relevant portions of the hypothalamus, thyroid, or whatever might lead to increased production or release of various hormones, or increased nerve signals that trigger widespread physiological changes. I’m not saying this is a likely effect of cell phones, just that it is possible. [/QUOTE] yes but then we’d see these effects to a much greater degree among peple that are exposed to similar signals in their everyday lives. For example the guys that maintain the cell-phone antennas are exposed to much more of that radiation, as are airport runway workers, TV tower climbers, military pilots, military radar operators, some taxicab drivers, police, and many more. ---
**Author:** ![La\_Llorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@La\_Llorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/La_Llorona)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/27 "2005-05-14T07:35:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Do you have a cite that lifespan has increased significantly in the years since microwave ovens were invented? That seems an awfully short span to see an effect on lifespan, especially since human lifespan is up in the 70s. Nobody who grew up with a microwave in the house has yet reached an age where they would be expected to die of old age. It’s important to remember that correlation doesn’t (necessarily) equal causality, though…life before the introduction of microwaves and life after a few decades of it aren’t precisely the same, with the exception of the one variable of the microwave. Even if there has been a change in human lifespans since that time, it’s doubtful if we’d be able to pinpoint it to that one factor. I’m kind of iffy on the whole subject of cell phones/microwaves/electronic devices myself…say what you will, I honestly don’t think we’ve had enough time with them or done enough research to say conclusively that they’re completely safe or not… ---
**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/28 "2005-05-14T22:51:20Z")
> [@La Llorona](#): > > It’s important to remember that correlation doesn’t (necessarily) equal causality, though…life before the introduction of microwaves and life after a few decades of it aren’t precisely the same, with the exception of the one variable of the microwave. Even if there has been a change in human lifespans since that time, it’s doubtful if we’d be able to pinpoint it to that one factor. I think **Hippodrome** ’s point was that if microwave ovens are killing us, you would not be likely to see an increase in lifespan. I don’t think **Hippodrome** was saying that microwave ovens were the _cause_ of the longer lifespan (just not preventing it). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/29 "2016-08-18T13:16:10Z")
Bumped because Cecil’s article is back on the SD homepage. Any good research in the 11 years since it first appeared to make us any more, or less, comfy with microwaves? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/30 "2016-08-18T13:28:46Z")
A decade late, but I should mention that my use of the word “conceivable” in those posts reflects a very low threshold of likelihood. I accept and agree that there is no reason to expect microwaved food to be any different, healthwise, than the same food cooked conventionally, nor to expect that microwave ovens cause any relevant amount of damage directly to their users. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727/31 "2016-08-19T14:50:28Z")
Whether this is “good” research is left up to the reader. > [@](#): > > Hertel explains, “Technically produced microwaves are based on the principle of alternating current. Atoms, molecules and cells hit by this hard electromagnetic radiation are forced to reverse polarity 1 to 100 billion times a second.” > > “There are no atoms, molecules or cells of any organic system able to withstand such a violent, destructive power for any extended period of time, not even in the low energy range of milliwatts. > (…) This is how microwave cooking heat is generated - friction from this violence in water molecules. Structures of molecules are torn apart, molecules are forcefully deformed (called structural isomerism) and thus become impaired in quality.” > **[Why and how microwave cooking causes cancer](https://www.naturalnews.com/030651_microwave_cooking_cancer.html)** > > Why and how microwave cooking causes cancer This article is even more recent, but talks largely about other potential concerns. > **[Why You Should Never Microwave Your Food](https://explore.globalhealing.com/why-you-should-never-microwave-your-food/)** > > Microwave ovens are convenient and cook your food in a short amount of time; however, there are much healthier cooking options available. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dangers-of-microwave-ovens/302727.md?page=1)