# Dante's Action Hero Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [September 29, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988 "2015-09-29T22:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/301 "2015-10-07T14:12:20Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I feel like I’m playing bizarro Mafia, because you and I disagree on such a fundamental level on how to play this game. I’ve never had to argue for the actual existence of the lynch before, so at least this is a new experience. 😃 > > I strongly believe that refusing to lynch is anti-town and pro-scum, and I don’t understand how anyone sees it differently. Town will be trapped in an endless cycle of Day 1 reads, hints, gut tells, guesses, and accusations until a lynch happens. This is not good for catching scum and it’s not good for player participation. Also, with a skipped lynch, scum has N+1 bodies to hide amongst, giving them a mathematical edge on future lynches. > > They have this edge with a no-lynch D1 because you’re wrong about another thing: we don’t lose “faster” by lynching D1. On both a lynch D1 and a no-lynch Day 1, we are at lynch-or-lose on D3 in a worst-case scenario. Bizzarro mafia indeed! If your assumption of 3 scum is correct, we would lose on N2, NOT lylo on D3. This was already explained in post #78, and you seemed to acknowledge (reluctantly) that you understood the math in post #80. I think you’re playing coy. You know exactly what I’m trying to explain here, and you understood it when I said it back on page 2. But, you know if you can keep the discussion on this stupid minutiae about whether there’s really 2 or 3 scum, and whether a no lynch buys us an extra night or not, then nobody will be talking about how you’re deliberately misrepresenting everything I’m posting. For example, I never suggested we no-lynch on day 1! Yet this is the third or fourth post where you claim I did. > [@](#): > > With a lynch, we enter D2 with 8 players left alive. With no lynch, we enter D2 with 9 players, and scum have one more body to hide amongst. Even the no-lynch D1 scenario results in lynch-or-lose on D3, when, assuming worst-case, we enter D3 with 7 players alive (4 town, 3 scum), mislynch, and lose. If there are 2 scum, D4 is lynch-or-lose either way (enter D4 with 5 players (3 town, 2 scum), mislynch loses). For the record, 2 scum is lylo on day 3, not day 4. Once again, this is math that had been explained to you before, and [you even acknowledged is correct](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18732417&postcount=80). The only reason to keep bringing it up is distraction. > [@](#): > > We definitely lose slower if we skip _all the lynches,_ though. Would you prefer that? Because, eventually, we need to lynch people to win the game. Nope, I’m seriously hoping for a lynch today. > [@](#): > > You also think I’m scum because I’m _insisting_ (nice word choice :)) that there are three scum. No, I’m not. I said you’re insisting there are 3 scum, _and yet acting in the way that is mathematically worst for town in that scenario_. It’s very important that the two clauses I presented are brought together, and not argued as if I never said the second part. > [@](#): > > _Who cares?_ If I’m wrong, the game ends earlier than I expected, and we can all be pleasantly surprised. I’ve never played in a game that deviates from the 1/4th rule or the square root rule, and it changes nothing in our play style if we believe there are two, or three scum. Not your play style, perhaps. I never thought there were 3 scum, but nice job keeping the discussion on this topic. Maybe we can keep talking about it all the way through day 2, and nobody will notice that you’re stalling. > [@](#): > > You also accuse me of “spending a lot of time saying Mosier’s innocent townie posts might be suspicious.” No I didn’t. I accused you of pointing suspicion without actually owning what you were saying. Almost every post in which you cast suspicion, you follow with something distancing yourself from that position. The important thing you should have quoted from me is that you don’t want any blood on your hands, Instead of _yet again_ only quoting one part of a two part clause I wrote. > [@](#): > > _That was the point of my post_, and you even noticed this when you say “oh, you weren’t serious.” No I didn’t. I’m getting tired of pointing out all the deceit in your misrepresentations of what I said. I said “oh, you weren’t serious” in response to your suggestion that we lynch one of the people who didn’t vote for me. It was a joke. > [@](#): > > I was pointing out how important a lynch is in building further cases, and how not having one hampers future case making, because we don’t know about you. Why are you spending so much time arguing against a position I never held? I never campaigned for a no-lynch day 1. All I did was point out to you that it was the best option if you were right about the scum ratio, which I believed was NOT the case. > [@](#): > > This seems obvious to me… what am I missing here? The rest of your case is similarly troublesome (you describe “you’re absolutely right” as _weasel words_ No, I didn’t. I described “if you flip town after a lynch/night kill, we can consider where that leaves HookerChemical” as weasel words. What _exactly_ do you mean by “we can consider where that leaves him”? There’s no reasonable argument against HC being town in this scenario, yet you seem to want to leave the door open for the possibility of doubt. That’s weasel words. > [@](#): > > WF Tomba thinks you’re claiming a power, and I can see where that’s coming from too. Otherwise, I’d vote for your logic and casemaking here, and I’m still kinda hopeful you get counter claimed down the road, so I can feel vindicated in my suspicion. 😃 WF Tomba thinks it’s obvious, but (s)he’s wrong. I explained why I wrote what I wrote, and it’s not because of a power role. Hooker Chemical is town. I know this because he switched his vote when he didn’t have to. This would be an obvious conclusion for me to draw as a vanilla townie. I don’t have a power role, and I never claimed one. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/302 "2015-10-07T14:56:54Z")
So no night kill. Yay ki yay! Also, **Dante** I’m liking the narration as well. The fact that it’s open to interpretation as to what happened isn’t something I was expecting, but I think it’s adding an interesting element. I know my not being eager for a night kill without stronger evidence wasn’t a universally held opinion, but the blocked kill makes me feel a lot better about it. We got plenty of information to discuss and accusations to make for Day Two, and I’m all aboard the lynch train now. I’m not sure who I’m lynching, but I’ll start by talking it out. I’ll cast a vote for candidate number one this afternoon/evening, in all likelihood, then have plenty of time to see where other votes fall out. This is all very speculative. I’m not sure of much right now. If I come off as sure of a role, I’m not. Except me, but that does you all no good. So what happened? I think this is an important question, because we should be asking “What did the town do to stop the kill and how did they do it?” It looks like we have a rolestopper, doctor, or similar character in Frank. If so, they had to guess who the mafia would target at night. Were there any likely targets? **Prof. P.** seems the most likely target for his Day One contributions, but that’s not a given. (While the narration may imply that Frank is a roleblocker, I don’t think the outcome supports that interpretation.) Still, this seems the most likely target for the scum, and the only easy guess for a doctor/rolestopper. If the scum didn’t try to kill **Prof. P.** , were there any other people likely to be targeted for both a night kill and protection? With that highly speculative interpretation, I think **Prof. P.** is town. I’ll be rereading things with this perspective to be sure it makes sense, but it seems reasonable. **Mosier** is the elephant in the room. I said on Day One I was suspicious to the point of voting for him. My suspicion has eased a little. I’ll not lie and say that his snuggling up to me isn’t a factor, because it is. It’s wholly possible that is scenario 2 from his post 293 (scum to townie snuggling). I’m sure that it’s either scenario 2 or 3, but the rest of you can’t take that for granted. Mosier is on my list for vaguely but not overtly scummy things like leaving the vote on **Suburban Plankton** , but suspicions are easing. Let’s talk about me for a minute. I was of the controversial opinion that a Day One no-lynch was better than a Day One lynch on flimsy information and made a late change of vote based on that. I certainly didn’t think that would be interpreted as a townie move (except by **Mosier** since he was the target). I figured it would come off as scummy to avoid a lynch, but took commentary indicating people spent too much time fretting about looking scummy to heart and went with what I think was a better strategic move for town at the risk of looking bad. I’m glad it’s being interpreted as townie, but I didn’t expect that reaction from **WF Tomba** , so thanks, **Tomba**. Love Canal is in the past, but you’re coming on to me way too strong. You can’t discount that I’m scum looking to look town by avoiding a lynch to look scum. The **Mosier** and me both scum seems farfetched even from your position, so there’s that. One other takeaway I had from the commentary thread for the previous game is that scum tends to think in straight forward ways while town thinks they’re operating wheels within wheels. A “both scum” scenario is pretty wheely since it would require me joining a lynch I didn’t want to happen, then bailing for reasons that had been set up early in the day, well ahead of a potential lynch of **Mosier**. I’ll leave it to you all to assess my scummyness, but I want to get that information into the discussion. **Mosier** is absolutely right about one thing, though. We should also be looking at vote order for Day One. (Hasty summary here. Please check this for errors.) They came onto **Mosier** in the order of \*\*Suburban Plankton, Prof P., Plum, Hooker, Astral \*\* then I unvoted. Vote 1 is a throwaway and not very indicative of much. It could be scum running way ahead trying to get a bandwagon started, but that seems like a long shot. Vote 2 is only slightly more suspicious since 6 are required for a lynch. **Prof P** was #2 on me early in the day for flimsy reasons and was unthreatening from my position, so I don’t put much weight vote #2 here as well as scummy. Leaving a vote there indicates either a real suspicion or attempt at mis-lynch. With votes 3-5, scummyness increases, especially as things get later in the day, as there are 2 or 3 scum and this is increasingly likely to be an attempt to mis-lynch (if **Mosier** is town). To be fair to **Astral** , he had an early vote there, unvoted it, then put it back on late. On a side note, **Plankton** voting **Mosier** in post 108 and 124 threw off my vote counting initially. Let’s try and avoid double voting. **Astral** and **Mosier** seem to be having at it. As I said discussing **Mosier** , I’m not sold on his townieness, but I’m not getting strong scum pinging either. I don’t have the time to get into this discussion until evening, but I’ll be watching this play out today before casting my vote. Off to work. I’ll follow along on breaks and post again after work. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/303 "2015-10-07T15:12:40Z")
Well, maybe I was wrong about **Mosier** claiming a power role after all. We’ll each just have to make up our minds about that. But part of the reason it seemed so obvious to me is that I knew from the story that _some_ Townie used a power last Night, and it worked. Therefore that Townie knows something important: either the identity of Karl or the identity of the Nightkill target. And it would behoove that Townie to communicate said knowledge to the rest of us, in some way, as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/304 "2015-10-07T15:19:56Z")
Well, as **Hooker** said, I was the most likely target, and probably **Astral** after me, given his propensity for accusations and frequent postings. So, thanks Frank, wherever you are. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/305 "2015-10-07T15:48:00Z")
A quick peak at the “Who’s Lurking” list shows the ailing **Mahaloth** on the bottom, with **Plankton** next, then **Sangfroid**. **Plankton** ’s lurking troubles me most of these. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/306 "2015-10-07T16:43:46Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > A quick peak at the “Who’s Lurking” list shows the ailing **Mahaloth** on the bottom, with **Plankton** next, then **Sangfroid**. **Plankton** ’s lurking troubles me most of these. I say lynch the lurker. Wait. Don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/307 "2015-10-07T17:03:53Z")
It’s lynch the lurker who cannot account for his lurking. At this point I think we need to assume there are three scum. If we’re wrong, then we benefit. If we’re right, then we’re as prepared as we can be. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/308 "2015-10-07T17:18:47Z")
**Plum** ’s count is notably enlarged by his Night postings: his total daytime posts number only 15. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/309 "2015-10-07T19:06:01Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > It’s lynch the lurker who cannot account for his lurking. > > At this point I think we need to assume there are three scum. If we’re wrong, then we benefit. If we’re right, then we’re as prepared as we can be. This approach seems reasonable and prudent. Assume 3, though 2 is possible. Right now, I’m scrutinizing Mosier and Astral for the content of the posts, sangfroid for the lack of content of his posts, and Plum and Mahaloth the for the lack of posts. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/310 "2015-10-07T19:07:58Z")
Does anybody have an opinion as to who a doctor/rolestopper should protect at night? ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/311 "2015-10-07T19:09:57Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Does anybody have an opinion as to who a doctor/rolestopper should protect at night? Anyone but me. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/312 "2015-10-07T20:35:52Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Does anybody have an opinion as to who a doctor/rolestopper should protect at night? I don’t have one at the moment. Maybe as the proceedings ensue. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/313 "2015-10-07T21:15:59Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > **Plumpudding** : off the top of my head, here’s some of the info we have. > > We know **Astral** was pushing hard for a lynch, any lynch, just to get “information”. Highly aggressive, definitely. In my opinion, too aggressive. Suspicious? Maybe. Regarding \*\*Astral \*\*and **Mosier** , I’m not quite sure. As I said earlier, I feel more towny about **Mosier** after post [264](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18748072&postcount=264). After reading the rest of the thread, I have the same feeling. Astral has been very aggressive. I can hardly fault him for that, I don’t have a lean yet. I’m curious about exactly why he changed his vote to sangfroid, considering he already had a case going with **Mosier** , but we’ll probably never know. > [@](#): > > We know **Sario** and **sangfroid** didn’t vote. I would say that’s insufficient aggression. Also possibly suspicious. I agree \*\*Sario \*\*not voting, while still being fairly active is quite suspicious. I think I’ve said my piece regarding **sangfroid**. > [@](#): > > In answer to your last question (because I think you may be including me in your set of people who “didn’t wanna lynch”), I would have been perfectly happy to lynch **Mahaloth** for lurking. I didn’t want to lynch **Mosier** because I didn’t find him particularly suspicious. I will definitely cast a vote toDay. I’m thinking we need to find ways to co-operate a bit. We have a much higher barrier of getting a lynch through now than in a usual game, with a pretty low roster. Or maybe I’m just more used to The Resistance. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > **Plum** ’s count is notably enlarged by his Night postings: his total daytime posts number only 15. This is true. Some of my night time posts I consider more or less on topic, but I haven’t been able to post as much as I would like. I try to give some responses when I do post, and I hope that comes through. If not, I’d like to know. I try to take some time each day to fire off a couple of posts, when I feel like I have something to add, but the time difference is quite noticable from my side in a game such as this. But I’m free tonight and have little to do tomorrow! Anyway, **VOTE SARIO** , for the weird discrepancy between posts and votes. I am open to change my vote, if anyone finds some convincing reason for me to do so. I’ll go back and read over **Mahaloth** ’s history in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/314 "2015-10-07T21:30:28Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > > So…Frank Martin (as portrayed by Jason Statham in the \*Transporter \*movies) would appear to be a Roleblocker, and it seems that he chose wisely last Night. > > > > Anyone have a different interpretation for the color? > > Looks like you’re spot on. > > I’m at school right now, but I’ll be present later this evening. After a little bit of research, I think we have a Doctor or a Rolestopper instead. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/315 "2015-10-07T22:04:42Z")
VOTE COUNT Astral Rejection - 1 (Mosier) Mahaloth - 1 (WF Tomba) WF Tomba - 1 (Mahaloth) Sario - 1 (Plumpudding) At this point we are 14 hours away from the lynching. If we’re going to lynch someone, we need to decide on who that should be. It’s complicated by the fact that we are 7 town, and need 6 to vote to lynch, so it would seem that scum can fairly easily throw it into a mislynch. I don’t see anyone whose obviously scum. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/316 "2015-10-07T22:05:43Z")
…or we can not lynch again, and hope our power roles can save us again. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/317 "2015-10-07T23:34:25Z")
I noticed that in the opening narrative, McClane referred to himself as “Detective McClane”. He was not a Detective in the original movie. According to IMDb, the character was an Officer in the first movie and a Lieutenant in the second. Is that a clue that we have a Detective? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/318 "2015-10-07T23:39:56Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Thanks, I guess that makes sense. By the way, my internet is still filtering this site at work. I could attempt to post during my commute(I only have a 10 minute commute as is), but I my data plan on my phone is super expensive, so I think I’ll have to wait until I am at home. Mahaloth, do you have an idea of for how long your work might continue to block SDMB? Do you know if it is temporary or not? Have you talked to the it guy? Can you somehow upgrade your cell-phone subscription or charge it with a voucer/online? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/319 "2015-10-07T23:54:03Z")
> [@sangfroid](#): > > Hey, all. > > I think **Dante** said earlier he thought this one Night would be long-ish due to some issues, but I have to admit being a bit anxious to converse and explain some of my typically convoluted thinking. > > That last game had me banging my head on the wall many times, let me tell you. > > I tend to be either over-cautious or hell-bent, like with Tex. Probably need to refine my approach here at the SD. > > Or at least _have_ an approach… I think what people find suspicious is that you seldom share much your convoluted thinking. The last game had us all banging our collective heads against eachothers. They usually do, and we want to try to get a good outcome out of that. To do that we need to share our thoughts. Instead of just “checking in” or asking for advice. I bet you have something interesting thoughts about this game and I’d really like to hear them. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/320 "2015-10-08T00:07:10Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I noticed that in the opening narrative, McClane referred to himself as “Detective McClane”. He was not a Detective in the original movie. According to IMDb, the character was an Officer in the first movie and a Lieutenant in the second. > > Is that a clue that we have a Detective? No, it’s not an implication that whomever is McClane has a detective ability. Basically I took the overall character of John McClane and based the game after the first film. How long after is left ambiguous. As the movies progressed, he did reach the Detective rank, starting as a Lieutenant in the first film. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988.md?page=17)