# Dante's Action Hero Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [September 29, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988 "2015-09-29T22:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/361 "2015-10-08T17:13:18Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > All I know for certain is my own role, of course. But, I can also guess a few things based on peoples’ behavior. For example, I don’t hold it against Suburban Plankton that he voted for me. I made a vote against him that was basically random (after it was determined that my admittedly flimsy reasoning was in fact completely wrong), and he made a revenge vote. He could be town or scum. Bad assumption #1: I did not make a revenge vote on you. I couldn’t have cared less that you voted for me yesterDay. I listed my reasons in the post containing my vote. My assumptions may or may not have been correct, but those were my reasons. > [@](#): > > Also, I know that _ **Hooker Chemical is town** _. I emphasize this because it’s the strongest opinion I have about anyone else. There’s no reason for a scum to switch his vote off me when I was so close to being lynched. I know the rest of you can’t just accept my premise that I’m town, but if (when) I eventually die and it’s revealed that I’m town, you’ll know with rock-solid certainty that Hooker Chemical is also town, and I hope you remember this post. Bad assumption #2: I understand your argument, but I disagree with your conclusion…or at least with the surety of your convictions. \*\*HookerChemical \*\*could not have known you were Town, unless he himself was in fact Scum. So the fact that he unvoted you doesn’t suggest that he’s Town; if it suggests anything (which I don’t really think it does), it would suggest the opposite. > [@](#): > > I’m also reasonably certain that scum would not have wasted the chance to lynch me if they could have. Therefore, I’m guessing all of the scum players are represented among people who voted for me. Also, I’m quite convinced now that there are fewer than 3 scum, as I’m pretty sure 3 scum could have influenced the vote enough to lynch me. Bad assumption #3: There might have been plenty of reasons for Scum to unvote you in that circumstance. The most obvious one is that he might build Town cred (as he appears to have done for you). It’s been pointed out how a no-lynch on Day 1 is good for Scum, as if nothing else, it allows them ‘first kill’ (we just plain got lucky on Night 1), and Town is just as likely to lynch Town again on Day 2, so there’s not that much of a downside for the Scum to not force a Day 1 lynch. > [@](#): > > Without counting Hooker Chemical (because he’s NOT SCUM) the badguys are two (or maybe only 1) of the following: > > Suburban Plankton (voted first, probably not scum but maybe) > Prof Pepperwinkle (no lean for me one way or the other) > Plumpudding (third vote, starting to look suspiciously like railroading) > Astral Rejection (5th vote, “trading bodies for evidence” comment in post 143 bothers me. And the timing of it is also suspect, as it seems to me like the whole post is meant to avoid the next-day scrutiny of my lynch result.) Bad assumption #4: Actually, this is not so much a bad assumption, but either lazy or deliberately misleading reasoning. We have 10 players in this game. We have 2 or 3 Scum (more on that in a moment). So if you post a random list of 4 players and say “one of these players is Scum”, you have pretty good odds that one of the people on your list will actually be Scum. Now, you might be honestly making this accusation, or you might have deliberately chosen these names because you’re Scum (in which case, we could get into a whole 'nother discussion about why you selected those names in particular, and what it means about the guilt or innocence of those listed.) My vote on you on Day 1 was based on the assumption that you were an experienced Mafia player; as it turns out, I was apparently incorrect (I guess I just was familiar with your name and figured that was the reason). So I don’t necessarily think that these ‘bad assumptions’ point to you being Scum. On the “how many Scum do we have” debate: It really doesn’t matter at this point. We know we have at least one, and our only goal is Town is to find and lynch one Scum. At that point, if the game continues (which I certainly expect it to), we’re back to “we have at least one Scum”, and we start again from the top. Whether there is one more after that, or two, or seventeen, doesn’t really matter, since we can only lynch one player each Day. And the more time we spend talking about _how many_ Scum there might be, the less time we spend talking about \*who \*the Scum might be. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/362 "2015-10-08T17:16:09Z")
Once more for the record, **SP** , who do you think are most likely to be scum? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/363 "2015-10-08T17:20:42Z")
Let’s do this thing. UNVOTE WF TOOMBA VOTE SUBURBAN PLANKTON ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/364 "2015-10-08T17:30:48Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > So what happened? I think this is an important question, because we should be asking “What did the town do to stop the kill and how did they do it?” It looks like we have a rolestopper, doctor, or similar character in Frank. If so, they had to guess who the mafia would target at night. Were there any likely targets? **Prof. P.** seems the most likely target for his Day One contributions, but that’s not a given. (While the narration may imply that Frank is a roleblocker, I don’t think the outcome supports that interpretation.) Still, this seems the most likely target for the scum, and the only easy guess for a doctor/rolestopper. If the scum didn’t try to kill **Prof. P.** , were there any other people likely to be targeted for both a night kill and protection? > > With that highly speculative interpretation, I think **Prof. P.** is town. I’ll be rereading things with this perspective to be sure it makes sense, but it seems reasonable. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > I think we got a big ol’ conversation starter in the intervention of Frank. What exactly is his ability? How did he pick the right target? Who is it? I threw my thoughts on the matter into the mix, including my opinion of who the NK block makes me think is townie ( **Prof P** ). The only other likely option is that he self targeted the protection and was also the target of the lynch. If that’s not **Prof P** that was the target (and therefore town), I think it implies **Astral** is town AND Frank and **Prof P** is scum. Though this logic makes a series of assumptions about Frank, his ability, and the scum’s target. At this point, the only \*\*\*ironclad \*\*\*evidence we have in the game is that something prevented the Scum from making a Kill last Night. I believe that the color allows us to interpret a bit more with a great deal of certainty, so that we can safely say: \*\*Karl \*\*was attempting to make a Kill. \*\*Frank \*\*stopped the Kill. If we read the description of Frank’s actions, it’s clear that his target was the would-be attacker, not the intended victim (“Frank Martin sat behind the wheel and scouted ahead and saw the person he’d been instructed to grab.”). So what we have here is a Roleblocker (who prevents his target from taking an action), not a Rolestopper (who prevents actions from being taken against his target), or a Doctor. As to who the likely target for the Scum Kill might have been, I don’t think there’s any way at this point for us to make an educated guess. They might have targeted someone they think is a Power; they might have targeted someone who declared some suspicion of one of them; they might have \*avoided \*targeting someone who was suspicious of them; they might have picked a target at random…I’ve been on Scum teams that did all of the above, and there’s no way for us to predict what might have happened here. We \*might \*have a better change of figuring out who the Roleblocker’s target might have been, but only if ‘Frank’ made his suspicions known in the thread, which he may or may not have done. In short, I disagree with both your assumptions. I don’t necessarily claim that they are incorrect, just that there is not enough evidence to draw those assumptions at all, at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/365 "2015-10-08T17:36:36Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Once more for the record, **SP** , who do you think are most likely to be scum? Once more? Did you ask the question earlier? If so, I missed it. At this point I have no strong suspicions, because there just simply isn’t enough data to form one. At the top of my list at the moment are \*\*Mosier \*\*and **Astral Rejection** , because it seems to me that they have spent a great deal of time so far discussing how many Scum there are, and whether or not it’s better to lynch or not lynch, and how many days until lynch-or-lose, and other stuff that doesn’t qualify as “hunting Scum”. Just to clarify: I don’t think that they are both Scum, but I think that one of them likely is, and he is using the other to try to steer the conversation to “discussion of mechanics” rather than “who are the bad guys?” ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/366 "2015-10-08T17:38:44Z")
**UPDATED COUNT** Suburban Plankton - **6** (Hooker Chemical, Professor Pepperwinkle, Sangfroid, Plumpudding, WF Tomba, Mahaloth) Astral Rejection - **1** (Mosier) 6 votes required for a lynch. Less than 1 hour left in the Day Phase. Day ends at 2PM EDT Play on, players! ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/367 "2015-10-08T17:39:07Z")
I didn’t ask before, but I more-or-less assumed you had voiced your opinion, and wanted to make sure it was heard in case we’re all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/368 "2015-10-08T17:39:59Z")
And I’ve just realized that I’ve made a grave error, by thinking that End of Day was tomorrow, and not today. My apologies. **VOTE ASTRAL REJECTION** Just for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/369 "2015-10-08T17:40:07Z")
Psst. In post 354, Astral Rejection also voted for Suburban Plankton. Sario? Any word? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/370 "2015-10-08T17:47:56Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Psst. In post 354, Astral Rejection also voted for Suburban Plankton. > Sario? Any word? Thanks for that, Professor. Sorry, I’m a bit rusty. Haven’t modded a game in a few years. Suburban Plankton - **7** (Hooker Chemical, Professor Pepperwinkle, Sangfroid, Plumpudding, WF Tomba, Mahaloth, Astral Rejection) Astral Rejection - **1** (Mosier) ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/371 "2015-10-08T17:51:45Z")
So you’re saying if you’d realized EOD was today, you would have been participating all day, so we wouldn’t be about to lynch you right now? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/372 "2015-10-08T17:52:10Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > If we read the description of Frank’s actions, it’s clear that his target was the would-be attacker, not the intended victim (“Frank Martin sat behind the wheel and scouted ahead and saw the person he’d been instructed to grab.”). So what we have here is a Roleblocker (who prevents his target from taking an action), not a Rolestopper (who prevents actions from being taken against his target), or a Doctor. But does a roleblocker prevent a night kill? My impression is that it does not typically prevent a NK, only abilities. I concede that the flavor is more like a roleblocker, but the lack of a NK doesn’t fit what I expect from a roleblocker. If the roleblocker can prevent a NK, that seems insanely powerful once you find scum. Simply target the same person every night and there will be no NK while lobbying for their lynch during day. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/373 "2015-10-08T17:55:17Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > …or we can not lynch again, and hope our power roles can save us again. I’m conflicted by this statement. On the one hand, that would be a Bad Thing to do. On the other hand, there is no viable candidate at the moment but me. I’m not a happy camper at the moment. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Psst. In post 354, Astral Rejection also voted for Suburban Plankton. “Psst”? Is this supposed to be a secret? This is too little, too late, and I’d be pretty pissed at me for doing this if I were you, but: I’m **“Dirty” Harry Callahan** , and I’m a Backup Town Cop. that is, I’m currently Vanilla, but if our Town Cop dies, I inherit his role. Unless I’m already dead. Again, I apologize for things going down this way…I thought there was another day until EoD. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/374 "2015-10-08T17:55:35Z")
I didn’t read it that way. I thought it was more a Rolestopper than a Roleblocker. And that goes with Hooker’s thought as well. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/375 "2015-10-08T17:56:36Z")
Oh, **UNVOTE SUBURBAN PLANKTON**. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/376 "2015-10-08T17:56:42Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > So you’re saying if you’d realized EOD was today, you would have been participating all day, so we wouldn’t be about to lynch you right now? > > :smack: Yes. Kinda. Or maybe not. What I’m saying is that if i had realized that EoD was today, I would have made sure that I checked in on the thread last night, instead of thinking I could leave it until today, since there was still plenty of time. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/377 "2015-10-08T17:58:01Z")
The “Psst.” was because I don’t like to have to correct the Moderator. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/378 "2015-10-08T17:59:10Z")
**MOD NOTE** I’m liking all your guy’s speculation on roles and abilities. Of course, only myself and the individual players no the truth. Gonna go ahead and end the Day. Narrative following. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/379 "2015-10-08T17:59:53Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The “Psst.” was because I don’t like to have to correct the Moderator. Ah, I see that now. As you might have noticed, I haven’t really left myself the time to closely read each and every post here today… ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988/380 "2015-10-08T18:00:57Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > **MOD NOTE** > I’m liking all your guy’s speculation on roles and abilities. Of course, only myself and the individual players no the truth. > Gonna go ahead and end the Day. Narrative following. That’s fine…but I’m sure the cavalry is just over the top of the hill, less than a minute away, with 4 or 5 unvotes in their pockets 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dantes-action-hero-mafia/732988.md?page=20)