# Daredevil on Netflix viewing thread (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 10, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318 "2015-04-10T12:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/221 "2015-05-01T17:00:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Except Nick Fury. > > And the Mandarin. > > Also, Ben Urich. > > Oh, and Night Nurse. > > But you’re right: probably not going to happen. So, your position is that Mandarin, Ben Urich and Night Nurse are superhero main characters? BTW, Fury’s race was changed in the comic long before he appeared in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/222 "2015-05-01T20:01:10Z")
Right - but maybe the fan acceptance of the race change in the comics indicated to Marvel that doing that in the movies would also be accepted. Most of Marvel’s stable of superheros stared in the 1960’s when “heroic” was white male. It’s a legacy that they’re sort of saddled with at this point. I mean, I’ve heard internet rants by Daredevil fans having meltdowns because on the TV series Matt Murdock wasn’t a blazing red head. I’m sitting here thinking “Seriously? You’re going to die on that hill? Hair color is one of the _least_ important things about this guy!” yet there are fan(atics) who scream bloody murder over such things. Think of the awful mess left by exploding heads if they had changed the _race_ of Matt Murdock! (Which is not to say that shouldn’t be considered.) For the comic book fans yes, seeing Ben Urich was a black man was a bit startling, but then you say “whatever - this guy is doing a good job in the role” and move on. I thought it was startling when they cast Idris Elba as Heimdall, too, but what the hell, he was fine for the part. For that matter, Fury going from white to black in the comics was a bit startling when it happened, too, but now everyone (except a few unevolved types) is OK with it. In the Ben Affleck movie Kingpin was a black man, not white. Marvel is not slavishly holding to race in casting people. That’s a good thing. Sure, they could also do better at it, and maybe some of the main leads could be re-cast without regard to race. If that happens I hope it’s because of the skill of the actor cast and not merely to change someone’s color. (Really, under that mask Spiderman could be _any_ ethnicity, how would anyone know?) ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/223 "2015-05-01T20:38:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Except Nick Fury. > > And the Mandarin. > > Also, Ben Urich. > > Oh, and Night Nurse. > > But you’re right: probably not going to happen. I know it’s non-MCU Marvel, but Johnny Storm in the FF reboot is being played by Michael B. Jordan, a black actor. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/224 "2015-05-01T20:53:12Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > I know it’s non-MCU Marvel, but Johnny Storm in the FF reboot is being played by Michael B. Jordan, a black actor. Yeah. So his dad. His sister, Sue, is still blonde and white, so she’ll be an acceptable love interest for Reed. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/225 "2015-05-01T20:55:11Z")
Yes, and in real life we currently have a president with an African father, white mother, and Asian sister (half-sister, actually). Your point…? Well, OK, I’d be totally cool with Sue Storm also being black because why not? Interracial couples aren’t a new thing (see current president’s parents. Again.) ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/226 "2015-05-01T21:00:36Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I know. I keep saying, Spiderman would be perfect for an Asian male. The sense of disenfranchisement and not quite belonging would fit a young Asian male living in NYC. I’d bet real money there’d still be complaints because of “Asian nerd stereotype.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/227 "2015-05-01T21:11:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, and in real life we currently have a president with an African father, white mother, and Asian sister (half-sister, actually). Your point…? My point is, why isn’t Sue black? Johnny and Sue are full siblings. Now, apparently, Sue is going to be adopted. Why make that change? 1) because having two black characters in the movie would make it “too black,” and 2) because they don’t want to have Reed and Sue in an interracial romance. Alternatively, if they wanted a black character in the cast, why not Reed? Same reasons. At least they didn’t go full-on Tone Deaf, and cast Ben, the football jock who spends most of the film as a special effect, as the black guy. I have no objection to recasting these characters from the '60s and earlier to make the movies more diverse. (As you might have noticed, I was just suggesting they do the same thing for Iron Fist a few posts back.) But the way they’ve done it in the new FF movie has taken a property that was simply uninclusive, and actually made it into something faintly racist. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/228 "2015-05-01T21:36:28Z")
From what I’ve seen of the new FF flick, the racial make-up of the Storm family is the least of the problems… ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/229 "2015-05-02T02:37:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yeah. So his dad. His sister, Sue, is still blonde and white, so she’ll be an acceptable love interest for Reed. Well, the previous Sue was Mexican and an acceptable love interest for Reed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/230 "2015-05-02T02:40:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > My point is, why isn’t Sue black? Johnny and Sue are full siblings. Now, apparently, Sue is going to be adopted. Why make that change? 1) because having two black characters in the movie would make it “too black,” and 2) because they don’t want to have Reed and Sue in an interracial romance. > > Alternatively, if they wanted a black character in the cast, why not Reed? Same reasons. > > At least they didn’t go full-on Tone Deaf, and cast Ben, the football jock who spends most of the film as a special effect, as the black guy. > > I have no objection to recasting these characters from the '60s and earlier to make the movies more diverse. (As you might have noticed, I was just suggesting they do the same thing for Iron Fist a few posts back.) But the way they’ve done it in the new FF movie has taken a property that was simply uninclusive, and actually made it into something faintly racist. How do you they are “full siblings”? Are you sure she wasn’t adopted or that they have the same mother but his father is her step-father? Not challenging just asking, because I loved seeing the dad was black so they establish Johnny’s not adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/231 "2015-05-02T02:54:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Well, the previous Sue was Mexican and an acceptable love interest for Reed. Mexican isn’t black. Usually. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/232 "2015-05-02T03:10:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How do you they are “full siblings”? Are you sure she wasn’t adopted or that they have the same mother but his father is her step-father? > > Not challenging just asking, because I loved seeing the dad was black so they establish Johnny’s not adopted. They’re full siblings in the comic. (At least as far as I’m aware. I’m not a big _Fantastic Four_ fan, but I do read a lot of Marvel.) I’m assuming in the new movie, she’s going to be adopted, or a step sister, or something. I suppose they might balls it out and write them as full siblings, or just ignore it, but I’d bet money that there’s going to be a scene where she talks to Reed wistfully about her “real” parents. But however they justify it in the script, it still looks like they’ve gone to some small amount of effort to make sure that the central romantic relationship in the film is not between someone who looks white, and someone who looks black. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/233 "2015-05-02T03:36:00Z")
Can someone tell me if Daredevil get better after the first episode or does it remain exposition theater? The first episode was terminally slow. Does it pick up at all? Does it gain any humor or is it dark and brooding? I enjoy Agents of Shield & Agent Carter but I found Daredevil was nearly unwatchable. Would watching another episode be worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/234 "2015-05-02T03:59:31Z")
The second episode has one of the best fight scenes I’ve ever seen on television. It’s worth watching just for that. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/235 "2015-05-02T04:00:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The second episode has one of the best fight scenes I’ve ever seen on television. It’s worth watching just for that. Cool, does the show pick up any humor or is it dark and brooding? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/236 "2015-05-02T04:03:14Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Cool, does the show pick up any humor or is it dark and brooding? The characters are developed quite a bit more and it is still dark but it has a real story going to offset that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/237 "2015-05-02T06:13:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Cool, does the show pick up any humor or is it dark and brooding? I thought Foggy and Karen had some good humorous interplay. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/238 "2015-05-02T08:36:42Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Including Fury is only a “kind of/sort of.” Nick Fury was black in the Ultimate comics from the get-go and those are going on over a decade now. As soon as I saw the Ultimate universe Nick Fury I knew somebody wanted him to be played by Samuel L. Jackson. And that person’s dream came true. > [@Broomstick](#): > > In the Ben Affleck movie Kingpin was a black man, not white. Marvel is not slavishly holding to race in casting people. I thought it was a great casting. Here was a guy who really looked the part of a guy you could mistake for fat, but was really a wall of muscle. And also, D’Onofrio made an excellent choice for a different interpretation of the character. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I’d bet real money there’d still be complaints because of “Asian nerd stereotype.” I fear you’re right. Recently I read an article complaining that Vivienne in the game Dragon Age Inquisitor is a trope called The Strong Black Woman. Whereas I think it’s clear that she’s actually the Rich Bitch trope that has been stood on its head by making the character black instead of as we normally think of her, white. Even people complaining about stereotypes are prone to reductionism. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/239 "2015-05-02T13:40:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Mexican isn’t black. > > Usually. No, but in North America at least Mexicans are considered “people of color” not “white”. Personally I think it’s silly and many Latinos find it quite weird when they find out that in the US they’re not considered Blancos, but that’s the way it is for now. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/240 "2015-05-02T13:53:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They’re full siblings in the comic. (At least as far as I’m aware. I’m not a big _Fantastic Four_ fan, but I do read a lot of Marvel.) I’m assuming in the new movie, she’s going to be adopted, or a step sister, or something. I suppose they might balls it out and write them as full siblings, or just ignore it, but I’d bet money that there’s going to be a scene where she talks to Reed wistfully about her “real” parents. But however they justify it in the script, it still looks like they’ve gone to some small amount of effort to make sure that the central romantic relationship in the film is not between someone who looks white, and someone who looks black. I really, really hope they don’t do a scene of her yearning for her “real” parents. Beyond that, I don’t see choosing to make Johnny black as going to “considerable effort” to keep the primary couple white. If that was their intention it would have been easier to keep Johnny white which no one would have batted an eyelash at. Beyond that, in the original movie, they made Alicia Masters, Ben Grimm’s girlfriend, black, when in the comics, she was white. Anyway, in my own experience America has been quite comfortable in pop culture for quite a long time with interracial relationships so long as the dude is white. It’s the reverse where there’s pushback, though considerably less than there used to be as late as the 90s. Anyway if you like the idea of such changes to have interracial couples, you might want to check out The Flash, though it’s not a Marvel product and The Arrow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318.md?page=13)