# Daredevil on Netflix viewing thread (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 10, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318 "2015-04-10T12:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/241 "2015-05-02T14:06:16Z")
Incidentally for those wondering about non-white super heroes showing up, there’s a potential Spider Man Easter egg, and no I’m not talking about the photograph. During one of the flashbacks to when Foggy and Matt were working at the other law firm, Foggy says “I just talked to Morales”. Well, Miles Morales’ parents were lawyers so it’s very possible, though a stretch that it was a reference to one of Miles Morales parents and it Spider Man appears, he may look more like Donald Glover than Andrew Garfield. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/242 "2015-05-02T15:47:31Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Incidentally for those wondering about non-white super heroes showing up, there’s a potential Spider Man Easter egg, and no I’m not talking about the photograph. > > During one of the flashbacks to when Foggy and Matt were working at the other law firm, Foggy says “I just talked to Morales”. > > Well, Miles Morales’ parents were lawyers so it’s very possible, though a stretch that it was a reference to one of Miles Morales parents and it Spider Man appears, he may look more like Donald Glover than Andrew Garfield. Not in the movies. It’s already been announced that it’s Peter Parker and the leading candidate to play him is Asa Butterfield. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/243 "2015-05-02T16:15:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Beyond that, I don’t see choosing to make Johnny black as going to “considerable effort” to keep the primary couple white. If that was their intention it would have been easier to keep Johnny white which no one would have batted an eyelash at. I didn’t say they went to “considerable effort,” I said they made “some small effort” to keep the primary relationship white. Which is to say, it wasn’t accidental. There is no way, when they were casting this movie, that someone didn’t say, “If Johnny’s going to be black, should we cast Sue as black, too?” And someone said, “No.” Why do you think they said no? > [@](#): > > Beyond that, in the original movie, they made Alicia Masters, Ben Grimm’s girlfriend, black, when in the comics, she was white. Who gives a shit what they did in the other movie? We’re not talking about the other movie. > [@](#): > > Anyway, in my own experience America has been quite comfortable in pop culture for quite a long time with interracial relationships so long as the dude is white. > > It’s the reverse where there’s pushback, though considerably less than there used to be as late as the 90s. I agree, they absolutely could have cast Sue as black. But they didn’t. Again, why do you think they made that decision? > [@](#): > > Anyway if you like the idea of such changes to have interracial couples, you might want to check out The Flash, though it’s not a Marvel product and The Arrow. I don’t have anything particularly for or against interracial relationships. My problem here is that they’ve made two changes to the original source material. The first one I’m okay with: these comics come from a different era, and I think it’s totally okay to change them to make them reflect the much more diverse audience they attract than they did in the '60s. I am bothered that they’ve changed, however subtly, the relationship between Sue and Johnny from full siblings, to whatever it’s going to be played as in the movie, because there _isn’t_ a good reason for that. There are, however, some really \*bad \*reasons for it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/244 "2015-05-02T18:08:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I didn’t say they went to “considerable effort,” I said they made “some small effort” to keep the primary relationship white. Which is to say, it wasn’t accidental. There is no way, when they were casting this movie, that someone didn’t say, “If Johnny’s going to be black, should we cast Sue as black, too?” And someone said, “No.” > > Why do you think they said no? > > Who gives a shit what they did in the other movie? We’re not talking about the other movie. > > I agree, they absolutely could have cast Sue as black. But they didn’t. Again, why do you think they made that decision? > > I don’t have anything particularly for or against interracial relationships. My problem here is that they’ve made two changes to the original source material. The first one I’m okay with: these comics come from a different era, and I think it’s totally okay to change them to make them reflect the much more diverse audience they attract than they did in the '60s. I am bothered that they’ve changed, however subtly, the relationship between Sue and Johnny from full siblings, to whatever it’s going to be played as in the movie, because there _isn’t_ a good reason for that. There are, however, some really \*bad \*reasons for it. As to why they didn’t decide to make Sue as well as Johnny blacks, I don’t know. It’s very possible that you’re correct, but I don’t know for sure. It’s possible that liked the idea of having Johnny and Sue come from a mixed family and think that might be more daring or modern than simply having Sue and Johnny both be black. Particularly considering how with the way divorce and other societal differences has changed America since 1963, half-brothers and half-sisters are increasingly more common. I should add when people meet me and my sister lots of people tend to assume were not 100% biological siblings, because I’m noticeably darker than she is, however we are. I just take more after our father, at least when it comes to genetics. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/245 "2015-05-02T18:26:53Z")
I am surprised at just how many people complain because certain shows lack a degree of realism or they have errors such as continuity errors or others. When I watch some of these shows, I don’t care much about errors made in the name of continuity or realism. From time to time, it’s fun to gripe about those errors. But I really don’t much care about them. I watch because I enjoy being transported to a different place and time and into someone else’s lifestyle - especially if that other persons’ lifestyle features some super powers or in other ways enable them to do some super things that I sure can’t do in my real life. I love to be able to imagine that I can somehow participate in that kind of lifestyle being presented on the screen and that gives me enormous pleasure in the ability to forget my everyday problems and pretend that I can somehow be a part of the action in my imagination. I respect that kind of thinking is not for everyone and clearly many of the audience members demand the writers and other people who work on these shows pay more attention to continuity and to the realism of these shows. I can understand that. But any show that can transport me out and away from my every day concerns about my shitty job and shitty neighbors and shitty in-laws will just do it for me. I’m feeling so happy at the moment this board offers us anonymity so that my shitty job and shitty neighbors and shitty in-laws will never know what I really have to say about them. Basically, I would like to tell most all of them to just go and “F” themselves. But I cannot do that in this location and time. So, I have to find a way to get transported to a different location and time. I get a chuckle out of that and I wish you all can find a way to get yourselves transported in a similar way - or at least in a way that makes you happy. 🙂 Thank you all for listening to me. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/246 "2015-05-02T19:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Why not just bring in Shang Chi for an Asian character?] Please do. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/247 "2015-05-03T01:31:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I agree, they absolutely could have cast Sue as black. But they didn’t. Again, why do you think they made that decision? Couldn’t say. But here’s a data point that I think may relate: According to an article I read on Cracked, some people were shocked, _shocked_, that an [asian girl was cast in the role of Cho Chang](http://www.cracked.com/article_21428_the-6-stupidest-national-outrages-about-fictional-characters.html) in the Harry Potter movies. I see the beginnings of a theme, but I can’t quite wrap my mind around it. Maybe I can counter-point with the fact that Brains in the new Thunderbirds has been re-imagined as Indian or possibly Pakistani, while Tintin is now an unidentifiably ethnic girl named Kayo whose evil uncle is now a white Brit instead of a card carrying member of the Yellow Peril. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/248 "2015-05-05T22:38:22Z")
5 eps in and I’m not sure. It’s a slow-burn but I dunno. I’m not that into gore and violence, and the ending to ep 5 was a bit unpleasant. Does it get worse? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/249 "2015-05-06T01:01:37Z")
Define “unpleasant” OK, a couple spoilers: [spoiler]Next episode you have the deliberate murder of a police officer via a stab in the neck, multiple injuries to Vladimir, and cops getting shot. A road flare is used to (temporarily) save Vlad’s life by cauterizing a wound - that is, deliberately causing a third degree burn to see off blood vessels. “Stick” starts with a man having his hand cut off and you get to see the gory stump. Beat-down between Stick and Matt in Matt’s apartment. “Shadows in the Glass” has a man lying on the ground incapacitated being repeatedly kicked by two other people. Also has a murder by claw hammer of a man by his young son. “Speak of the Devil” features a nice old lady lying on a morgue slab dead of multiple stab wounds. Ends with one person burning to death (does not happen particularly quickly), Matt half dead of various cuts and slashes, then getting the living shit beat out of him by Fisk.[/spoiler] Episode 10, “Nelson v. Murdock” gives a break from the overt violence largely because Matt Murdock is so severely injured he can barely move from his couch. The poisoning scenes at the end aren’t violent and you don’t see anyone die, that happens off-stage. [spoiler]“The Path of the Righteous” involves someone being kidnapped, then shooting her kidnapper to death. “The Ones We Leave Behind” a major supporting character is strangled to death. “Daredevil” finishes the series with one person being thrown down an elevator shaft - we get to see the puddle of blood and crumpled body. Multiple graphic deaths of police officers by gunfire. Another beat-down between Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk with Matt winning this time - just ignore the blood on both parties.[/spoiler] If you don’t want to read the spoilers - yes, more of the same, a few episodes of worse, and only one episode with minimal on-screen violence. If the level of violence up to episode 5 has bothered you no, it doesn’t get better. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/250 "2015-05-06T01:23:46Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > For another, Marvel has shown no propensity to change the racial or ethnic derivations of their comic book superhero main characters in the movie versions. I gather we’re not counting the 2003 Daredevil movie. I thought Michael Clarke Duncan did a good job, though I’m torn in the dichotomy of his and D’Onofrio’s interpretations. Duncan’s Kingpin smiled too much, while D’Onofrio’s seemed to alternate between catatonic and enraged. Neither of them affected a George Sanders-ish urbane sophistication as facade worn by a calculating sociopath, which I’d always pictured as a Kingpin trait. I basically wanted a live action version of Shere Khan (from _The Jungle Book_, who was voiced by Sanders) or Megabyte (from _ReBoot_, voiced by Tony Jay who was more-or-less imitating Sanders and had voiced Shere Khan in latter versions of _Jungle Book_). ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/251 "2015-05-06T02:16:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I gather we’re not counting the 2003 Daredevil movie. I’m not counting Kingpin as a superhero. He’s a villain. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/252 "2015-05-06T02:18:39Z")
Well, without the villain, the superhero main character is useless, but no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/253 "2015-05-06T02:44:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, without the villain, the superhero main character is useless, but no big deal. What I am saying is that Marvel seems more ready to change the race of a villain than of a superhero. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/254 "2015-05-06T14:18:53Z")
Holy Double posts, Batman! ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/255 "2015-05-06T14:21:37Z")
I finished the last episode last night (finally) and I have to say that I didn’t like it as much as I wanted to. It was decent and there was very good action and some good characterization. The actors all looked good in their parts. Ultimately, I thought Daredevil’s plan of just punching everyone in the city until he brought down Fisk wasn’t very well thought out. I thought it took a little too long for him to go from “The Man in Black” to Daredevil. All that being said, I did invest in Murdock. he was a good character who wanted to do good. And I liked the street level aspect of it as well. But I also thought Fisk running from Daredevil in the last episode reminded me of Uncle Fester from the Addams Family movies. Does Foggy know that Matt is Daredevil in the comics? Does the tone of this series mean that Jessica Jones, Heroes for Hire, and Defenders are also going to be dark like this? I can see that it would be easy for Jessica Jones to be with the Purple Man and all but I’d like to see Defenders be a little more lighthearted. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/256 "2015-05-06T16:01:11Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Does Foggy know that Matt is Daredevil in the comics? [_Everyone_ knows that Matt is Daredevil in the comics right now.](https://40.media.tumblr.com/0ab5931f33d8b18ca6e4faeb2c8a23c3/tumblr_nm2dordeKn1sr7dvdo1_500.jpg) But that’s pretty recent. Foggy has known about Matt for ages. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/257 "2015-05-06T16:43:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Except Nick Fury. > > And the Mandarin. > > Also, Ben Urich. > > Oh, and Night Nurse. > > But you’re right: probably not going to happen. Nick Fury is played by a man whom I know everyone loves but absolutely personifies “Angry Black Man”. But sure, whatever, I’ll give him to you. Mandarin turns out to be a white guy playing an Asian! Ben Urich? Awesome guy. You mean the one that dies, right? I have no idea who Night Nurse is, but the point still stands! I! ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/258 "2015-05-06T16:46:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [_Everyone_ knows that Matt is Daredevil in the comics right now.](https://40.media.tumblr.com/0ab5931f33d8b18ca6e4faeb2c8a23c3/tumblr_nm2dordeKn1sr7dvdo1_500.jpg) > > But that’s pretty recent. Foggy has known about Matt for ages. Hah, I forgot about that. I read a few trades here and there but I’m not actively reading any comics right now for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/259 "2015-05-06T16:53:59Z")
Here’s what really bothers me about the Asian/black/white thing. People don’t want to cast Asians or blacks because somehow, we are still “other”. When that shouldn’t matter at all. Mos Def made an awesome Ford Prefect. Acting is what counts. But we still look at the color of people. Despite the Asians who are growing up in movies now, they are 100% American, and just happen to have Asian ancestry. And blacks, they’ve been here forever! They just happen to be a different color. I just really don’t get it. Anyone who says that we are color blind, clearly they are not paying attention. I would submit that a good actor of any color could play Tony Stark - but would he sell like RDJ? Absolutely not. In the end it’s all about keeping us in our place - not letting us be mainstream. In the Avengers movies, both War Machine and Falcon are their roles first and black second, if at all. But people act like they are going to somehow substantially change the role, ruin it, just by being black. On another note, so this post isn’t all about race (!), Charlie Wayne, I get what you are saying. But for some people, those kinds of things add to the fun for them. Looking for continuity errors is pretty boring to me, too, and I can hang my disbelief pretty high, but some people like that sort of thing. Me, I don’t like to analyze most movies too much. It ruins the magic for me. Some though - I like to pick apart Star Wars as much as anyone here, but I almost never participate in the Star Trek threads. It’s all about what floats your boat! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318/260 "2015-05-06T17:23:48Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Nick Fury is played by a man whom I know everyone loves but absolutely personifies “Angry Black Man”. But sure, whatever, I’ll give him to you. I’m not sure what you’re giving me? I was just giving a list of characters who have been cast as a different race than they were in the comics. I wasn’t trying to argue that the list constitutes an acceptable level of minority representation in the Marvel movies. > [@](#): > > Mandarin turns out to be a white guy playing an Asian! Ben Kingsley is Asian. His birth name is Khrishna Bhanji. In the comics, the character is Chinese, though, not Indian. And an actual supervillain, not a washed-up luvvie. > [@](#): > > Ben Urich? Awesome guy. You mean the one that dies, right? Yeah, probably my least favorite thing about the series. > [@](#): > > I have no idea who Night Nurse is, but the point still stands! I! Rosario Dawson’s character from _Daredevil_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/daredevil-on-netflix-viewing-thread-open-spoilers/717318.md?page=14)