You are 100% correct about this. The airplane intro sequence played in IMAX theaters several months back as a sneak preview, and since then Bane’s vocals were almost entirely re-recorded. A couple lines remain from the previous version, but mostly it was revised, presumably because of all the complaints back then about how difficult he was to understand.
In the first movie Rhas Al Ghoul says that the League of Shadows is in charge of history, that they need to destroy the city to balance history because every time a culture gets too decadent they destroy it so the culture does not destroy the world. They first try to destroy Gotham economically but Thomas Wayne and his fellow rich people stop that by building the train and doing good deeds. They then train Bruce Wayne to be an agent so that he can be sent back to destroy Gotham. When this fails they try the plot with Scarecrow and the microwaves.
This time Bane is going to destroy Gotham with the nuclear device but first he wants to show the world how evil a place it is. Thus he imprisons the police and lets anarchy reign above ground. His rants against the wealthy and privileged are just meant to get the people of gotham to act depravely and show the rest of the world how evil Gotham really is, so that when it is destroyed history can be put right.
I’m not sure of the difference, it was the AMC in Kent, WA if that helps. How does digital Imax differ from real Imax? I also noticed during the advertising/previews before the movie that the colors were off, as if the red projector was mis-aligned or something, on the white screen with red text there was color bleed. I didn’t notice visual problems in the movie, though.
I couldn’t understand almost a single line during the airplane scene either, which is a shame because it seemed one of the more interesting parts of the movie.
Why was Bane giving the physicist a blood transfusion in the middle of that scene, anyway?
So that when the plane crashes and his body goes SPLAT the doctor’s blood is all over the plane and the authorities think he’s dead.
I basically came in here to say this. It seems like a lot of people were confused by the masterplan of Bane and Talia, but this really sums it up. It isn’t just enough to destroy Gotham, but to demonstrate just how corrupt it is. It is clear from BB that the LoS isn’t against a little bit of deceit, as they lied to Crane about holding the city ransom, and here Bane was deliberately inciting the crowd. The whole idea was that by unleashing the anarchy it would demonstrate just how fragile the seeming peace was. Then after demonstrating why that way of life was corrupt and unsavable, they would clean it away and let the world start from scratch.
And that’s why the bomb going off after 5-months anyway was good for them. If Bane died, the fear of the trigger being on an ordinary citizen would keep the status quo going. If Talia died as well, they’d never know she had the trigger and they’d still end up destroyed.
The Dent act was also a major player in their plot. It didn’t really clean up the city as much as they thought. Sure, it got rid of organized crime and made the streets safer, but the people hated it and didn’t like that people were being held without trial and all. The only reason the bill flew was because of Dent’s flawless name. Hell, even in his flawless name, he lived out the role of Cesar he mentioned in the restaurant scene in Dark Knight. The whole point was that once they realized that they’d been living under that law under a lie, even the good people would be pissed.
This is why they spent years building their plot. They’d done it before with economics, they more or less were going to be planning something similar after training Bruce and planting him in Gotham, it’s not like he was just going to return and destroy the city in a week. The League of Shadows has existed for Millenia and they’ll take their time to destroy the city.
It was also clear that the whole Dent act had really affected Bruce and Gordon negatively because of the lie, hence Gordon’s resignment and Bruce’s hermit existence.
I really felt like the motivations of Bane and Talia were handled well, even if the whole relationship aspect between Bruce and Talia was done a bit ham-handedly. I would have liked to have seen that they had developed some kind of relationship during the 8-years and maybe Bruce broke it off when he became a recluse or for the company. I felt like just a one-time fling sort of missed a big part of why I think the whole Talia angle of Ra’s is what makes him my favorite of Batman’s villains. I would have liked to have seen the reveal a bit sooner and maybe see a bit of them each grappling with loving eachother but ultimately having to be enemies because of their opposed fanatical beliefs. Then again, she’s just not the same character, it seemed more like she probably never really felt anything for him and was just emotionally manipulating him.
Anyway, I really liked it. The part I like about Nolan’s interpretation is that it isn’t just a superhero flick like Avengers. It is much more about the people behind it and I think they did a better job of filling out some of the characters in this movie than they had in the past. While I think the whole pit scene went on too long and was a bit too metaphorical, I think it helped a lot to see how Bruce wasn’t losing to Bane just because he was physically inferior but because he’d lost that edge, not just physically, but mentally; he only cared because other people cared. I think Bale turned in his best performance of the trilogy in this movie.
While I saw the story arc of John Blake a mile away; hell, I predicted how it would go before I saw the movie just based on the name, that he was a cop, and that JGL was playing the role. That, along with them listing duel Talia/Miranda credit is why I’ve suggested to everyone who hasn’t seen it to not even look at who was cast if they can avoid it. I think he did well with the role and very much played the role of a Robin without being one, and was able to the the hero with a face that Harvey Dent couldn’t be. I felt like the character got more screentime than he deserved and I’d have liked to have seen more of it replaced with Batman, but it was good.
I think Anne Hathaway did very well in the role. After seeing how well Heath Ledger did with Joker, thinking very iffy of it, and being aware of all the high profile actresses that auditioned for the role, I just sort of trusted Nolan that he knew what he was doing, and I think she did very well. I felt like she was sort of forced in a bit at times, but it wasn’t beyond belief and it was interesting to see Batman save someone not through physical heroics but just by trust.
I loved Michael Caine’s performance. I felt his leaving was a little off, but he really acted the hell out of that and the funeral scene. I’d really love to see him get at least a nomination for best supporting actor.
I think Tom Hardy did very well. He was difficult to understand at times, though that’s not his fault. His acting with the mask on was as impressive as seeing Hugo Weaving in V for Vendetta. He really came off as sort of the leader of a military coup, with holding onto his jacket and all. I’m not so sure still how I feel with him being tied to the League of Shadows rather than a mercenary, but it’s nice to see the crux of his character was still intact.
As for some of the plotholes, they are there, but I think most of them aren’t as bad as some people make them out to be. Particularly with regard to the bomb, I sort of took the timer on the bomb sort of like how my car predicts the range I have on my tank of gas, or how you see how long is left on downloading a file. It makes an educated guess, presumably by watching the radioactive decay, and it’s going to be fuzzy farther out and more accurate closer in. The Doctor who modified it easily could have made a change to the display and used some sort of probes that were already in it to get a timer.
As for why the government just kind of sat around, it seems to me the part with the secret ops going in was a nod to that. They couldn’t do anything overt because of the bomb, but presumably if they’d try one mission, they probably tried a few others, I don’t think they needed to show more than one failed attempt.
As for Bruce getting back to Gotham quickly, presumably he has cash and resources elsewhere, so that didn’t bother me at all. I could even see him following Selina around a bit waiting to get a read on her as to whether he coudl trust her, which is why he seems to show up conveniently when she shows that she’s really just a good person who got into a bad lifestyle and in WAY over her head.
The only part that bothered me was the ending. I would have been happy to see Batman die, but I think the happy ending was really more fitting, particularly with how dark the trilogy was. He finally exorcised his demons in the same way that cleanslate removed Selina’s record. I was kind of bothered by him letting those closest to him think he was dead, but he made sure the people that really mattered found out. Surely he knew Lucius would figure out he made the change, and knowing Alfred’s vacation to France, he’d give him the nod he would understand.
Overall, I really liked it. I really would have liked just one more realy Batman action sequence, and cut back on the pit stuff to make room for it, since there was at least 10 minutes of unnecessary pit stuff. I just think it lost sight a bit it trying to cover so much that it was really a Batman movie and another action sequence would have helped. For the character development, I think it did the best in really giving some teeth to Bruce’s anguish, that’s really what draws me to the Batman character, but I do think there were some pacing issues early on as they were trying to establish several new characters, and I think there wasn’t quite enough action. So, overall, I think it’ll probably settle a little behind Dark Knight for me, but I guess we’ll see how I feel when I can see it again.
I understand what you mean, but saying it’s not just a superhero movie makes me want to ask: then why make it a superhero movie?
Why make Batman if you’re not really interested in Batman?
I liked The Avengers for a lot of reasons, but one of the main reasons is that it’s not embarrassed to be a superhero movie.
Despite what Nolan seems to believe, Batman’s defining characteristic isn’t that he’s tortured by his past. His defining characteristic is that he is a force for justice. He doesn’t fight crime just because his parents were murdered. That’s just why he doesn’t use a gun to do it. He’s not some guy who can’t get over past experiences. He’s not a guy who thinks that he owes it to Gotham City to fight its demons. They are his demons, and he kicks their asses all the time.
He’s Batman. He isn’t Bruce Wayne in a suit any more than Clark Kent is Superman in street clothes.
There are some good moments in this series, but it’s not really Batman. It’s weepy and sentimental and angsty in ways Batman would roll his eyes at. Or probably just grunt and say, “Get over it, there’s work to do.”
I agree with a lot of the comments people have made, but one quick note: the motorcycle with the wheels that can spit on the other axis when making quick turns is an absolutely brilliant piece of almost-kinda-plausible superhero gadgetry.
This is the only part I really disagree with you with only because I don’t think the happy ending was to show the audience that Batman lived and is going to be happily ever after. I think it was to show us that Bruce Wayne lived and now Alfred can live his life happy instead of miserable and depressed knowing “he failed”.
Spoiler in 3…2…
I understand that in one of the early drafts, Joseph Gordon Mary Kate Olsen Leavitt’s character in Dark Knight Rises was to be named Robiny Robin McRobinsalot and be played by the love child of Robin Wright and Robin Williams, but Nolan thought perhaps that would be too subtle.
That it’s not JUST a superhero movie doesn’t mean it’s not a superhero movie. I love superhero movies and I love seeing people with fantastic powers fight and all of that. But the thing is, other than a given hero’s set of powers and his villain, you really don’t get the whole depth of character.
That is, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of mystery to me why Superman or Spider-man or anyone else with powers would go fight crime. Even without some sort of tragic past, I think a lot of people who suddenly got some super powers would want to do something spectacular with it. But that’s what sets Batman apart from so many other heroes, that he’s just a normal man. What drives a normal person to do something like that? We really don’t see that sort of story in real life, and though he does have that tragic past, it’s not exactly something particularly unique.
In fact, as we see in Batman Begins, his parents’ murder almost turned him into the opposite of a hero, where he intended to exact revenge on Joe Chill. It was the journey he went on afterward that forged his character. In essence, it is his character that makes him a super hero, not some super powers.
And that’s why I really like Nolan’s take on Batman. In previous incarnations, they just sort of retold his story and now he’s Batman. There’s no internal struggle, there’s no real will to overcome. Just, here’s a villain, I’m going to take them down like any other superhero might. Here we see his internal struggle and he faces villains that mirror his own struggle. And it’s precisely my ability to relate to that normal human side of him that makes him believable to me.
It’s the same reason I really liked how his origin was presented in Mask of the Phantasm, the emotional undercurrent and the drive is there in a way I just never really felt other superheroes had to the same degree.
So, yeah, it’s not his tortured past, that’s only a part of the story, but it’s not just that he is a force for justice either, it’s WHY.
I will start off by saying I loved it but maybe because I’m not Comic-Book Guy.
Minor quibbles:
The plot holes were huge but no larger than any other Dark Knight movie. Maybe it’s just something to expect in Batman movies that there will be comic book science/logic. The bad part was that most of the plotholes just needed better writing.
I didn’t see the point of Bruce and Miranda’s one night stand.
It may have been authentic, but Gordon-Levitt’s accent was a little off-putting.
Why does Batman use the Batman voice even in private with people that know he’s Bruce?
Major quibbles:
Anne Hathaway’s acting is abyssmal. No depth to her character whatsoever. The people I went with disagreed whether the blonde was her lesbian lover or her sister.
So let me get this straight. Blake knows that Bruce is Batman because he saw the pain in Bruce’s eyes (not Batman mind you) from being an orphan like Blake. WTF?
OK the good points:
Michael Caine should get his third Oscar for his performance.
Tom Hardy’s performance was phenomenal considering he had to do it all with just his eyes and voice.
Christian Bale and Marion Cotillard’s (except for the death scene) acting was pretty good.
The plot twists at the end were very good, even if you saw them coming.
The idea of whether it is fear of death, welcoming death, or lack of a fear that makes you strong.
Oh and he’s not Robin at the end, he’s Nightwing.
We were laughing about that to. But I actually think I’d do the same thing in the unlikely event that I was a costumed superhero trying to disguise my voice. Its too easy to get confused and use the wrong voice if you alter your voice based both on whether you’re in your costume or not and based on who your talking to.
Easier to avoid screwups if you just to use the Batman voice whenever your dressed as Batman. Plus then you don’t have to worry about eavesdroppers.
I thought the movie was fine for the most part but one thing that bothered me was that it seemed like everyone was speaking in a normal, movie volume but whenever Bane spoke it was like his mouthpiece was fed directly into the theater speakers to compensate for the muffled nature of his voice. It was pretty jarring every time he spoke because it was like someone was speaking into a PA in the theater.
Anyone else have this same experience?
Otherwise I thought it was pretty good, though I agree they kind of ham-fisted the survival at the end and shoved it in our faces.
It would make more sense that Blane knows who Batman is because Ra’s al Ghul and Talia do.
I would have liked the end to be as someone described up thread. Caine looks up, a bright smile lights up his face, and he walks away. We never see what he’s looking at, but we know who it is.
Kind of like the way Good Will Hunting ended.
TheMrs.&I discussed that option.
We pretty much agreed the reason why Nolan couldn’t do this is because it couldn’t end (basically) the same way Inception does.
Actually ya know what would have been funny/cool? If Michael Caine, looks up, smiles, and sees Leo DiCaprio’s spinning top lol
I loved the ending. It is probably my age showing, but I watched Batman for almost 8 hours and go through all the stuff he went through, parent’s death, the love of his life’s , physical and emotional pain. I wanted him to be alive and to be happy at the end. I felt cared about by the filmmakers in that they took me on a ride but still respected my emotions enough to have it end on a high note.
Definitely a digital IMAX theater. If you want to see it in 15/70 (film), you would need to go to the Pacific Science Center up in Seattle. There are…a lot of differences between film and digital IMAX, and in my own personal opinion, if you’re going to pay extra for an IMAX film, you should really be seeing it on IMAX film. And the film theaters tend to have better sound systems as well, so it’s very likely that the sound issues you experienced were more about the theater where you saw it than the film itself.
I think they should have focused more time on that. The set it up nicely with Selina’s speech and the scenes when they’re dragging some rich people out of a hotel. Then Bane even says something a long the lines of “Do as you please,” which reminds me of V and his belief in anarchy. But then we see everyone of Gotham staying in doors and Bane’s tumblers patrolling the streets giving the impression that the public are prisoners in their homes. I also think that Talia’s speech about wanting to destroy Gotham just to finish her father’s work was a pretty typically lame villain reason. It would have been better if they had ditched the whole excommunication thing and had Bane and Talia been very close with Ras and held the same convictions about society that he held.
Nolan shouldn’t have listened to the internet about Bane’s voice. He altered it only for the plane scene and I think one more, but the rest of the film, Bane’s voice sounds natural albeit there are times when you can’t understand some of his words. I’d rather have to strain to understand him, but have him still maintain the menace rather than some shrieking over dub that stands out.
I was disappointed that Batman shot out blades from his gauntlets at The Joker but didn’t use them on Bane, or have something equally sneaky. He has a utility belt!
Batman being surrounded by the police was cool but his escape was pushing it, even by comic movie standards. He killed Harvey Dent, you’d think the police would have opened fire as soon as he appeared to charge them with the motorcycle.
I have even more complaints, but despite all that I still thought it was an awesome movie. Christian Bale actually showed some real emotion in this film, Bane was very creepy, the ideas they tried to get across in the film, while not executed as well as I thought they could have been were atleast interesting, The Bat was very impressive on screen, and the ending was pretty good.