# Darth Vader and the destruction of the first Death Star **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260 "2010-07-28T02:45:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/21 "2010-07-28T23:44:03Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Why, let’s build ANOTHER Death Star! What could possibly go wrong this time? As a co-worker of mine likes to point out; The first one had a small, unshielded exhaust vent that was exploited to destroy the thing. So what do we do with the second one? Why, we have a series of holes large enough to fly entire ships through to the center of the damned thing! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/22 "2010-07-29T02:39:18Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > > [@Superhal](#): > > > > Why, let’s build ANOTHER Death Star! What could possibly go wrong this time? > > As a co-worker of mine likes to point out; > > The first one had a small, unshielded exhaust vent that was exploited to destroy the thing. So what do we do with the second one? Why, we have a series of holes large enough to fly entire ships through to the center of the damned thing! Admittedly the second Death Star was still under construction. But thinking the Rebels just _ **couldn’t** _ steal the bait out of the trap a second time? That one’s entirely on Palpy. Of course even after being informed that the shield facility is threatened, Palpatine seems more concerned with Luke and Vader than the imminent destruction of the Death Star II and everyone aboard. Apparently by then he was confident his mind transfer scheme would work, and is obsessed with concerns of the Force over purely military matters. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/23 "2010-07-29T04:35:54Z")
As much as I love Star Wars, it is a bunch of made up crap. No part of it stands up to any kind of close analysis. It was intended to be enjoyed as a visceral popcorn experience, not studied and mulled over for meaning by fanbois for the rest of eternity. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/24 "2010-07-29T04:38:09Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > It was intended to be enjoyed as a visceral popcorn experience, not studied and mulled over for meaning by fanbois for the rest of eternity. What, we should talk about Star Trek?!? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/25 "2010-07-29T04:49:54Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > As much as I love Star Wars, it is a bunch of made up crap. No part of it stands up to any kind of close analysis. It was intended to be enjoyed as a visceral popcorn experience, not studied and mulled over for meaning by fanbois for the rest of eternity. I’m picturing my group of friends in 1977. We’re all hunkered down in theater seats, watching “_Star Wars_” (none of that _New Hope_ felgercarb for us), complaining about some plot hole… and George Lucas (with jumbo popcorn) leans over our seats: _“Shhh! It’s just a movie.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/26 "2010-07-29T05:05:14Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > It was intended to be enjoyed as a visceral popcorn experience, not studied and mulled over for meaning by fanbois for the rest of eternity. What the creator intends and what the work is are not necessarily the same. Yeah. That’s right. I got artsy-pretentious about Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/27 "2010-07-29T13:03:32Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > What the creator intends and what the work is are not necessarily the same. See _ **Frankenstein; or The Modern Prometheus** _. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![snoopygal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@snoopygal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoopygal)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/28 "2010-07-29T14:10:15Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Of course even after being informed that the shield facility is threatened, Palpatine seems more concerned with Luke and Vader than the imminent destruction of the Death Star II and everyone aboard. Apparently by then he was confident his mind transfer scheme would work, and is obsessed with concerns of the Force over purely military matters. I know nothing of any mind transfer scheme. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/29 "2010-07-29T14:27:18Z")
> [@digs](#): > > … > George Lucas (with jumbo popcorn) leans over our seats: _“Shhh! It’s just a movie.”_ Yeah, both heroes and villains have to sometimes make less-than-intelligent decisions for the sake of having a plot (and without the benefit of audience omniscience). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/30 "2010-07-29T14:52:04Z")
> [@snoopygal](#): > > > [@Lumpy](#): > > > > Of course even after being informed that the shield facility is threatened, Palpatine seems more concerned with Luke and Vader than the imminent destruction of the Death Star II and everyone aboard. Apparently by then he was confident his mind transfer scheme would work, and is obsessed with concerns of the Force over purely military matters. > > I know nothing of any mind transfer scheme. Mind transfer… sounds a bit too science fiction-y, doesn’t it? I mean, this is Star Wars we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/31 "2010-07-29T15:57:21Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No. I’d say he doesn’t bother to correct him because Han doesn’t believe in it anyway. It would be like telling him that the invisible pink unicorn is actually orange. Why would he give a damn? This is another example of why I, II and III suck. It has only been 20 years since the fall of the Republic and the Jedi order! It would be impossible not to know of the force and it’s use since they were a galaxy wide presence only two decades before. Hell even a slave kid on a backwater planet knew of the Jedi, this is well within Han’s lifetime. In SW Obi-wan’s tale of the Republic’s fall sounded like 50 or 60 years in the past, beyond the living memories of the principal characters. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/32 "2010-07-29T16:26:58Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > > [@Grumman](#): > > > > No. I’d say he doesn’t bother to correct him because Han doesn’t believe in it anyway. It would be like telling him that the invisible pink unicorn is actually orange. Why would he give a damn? > > This is another example of why I, II and III suck. It has only been 20 years since the fall of the Republic and the Jedi order! It would be impossible not to know of the force and it’s use since they were a galaxy wide presence only two decades before. Hell even a slave kid on a backwater planet knew of the Jedi, this is well within Han’s lifetime. In SW Obi-wan’s tale of the Republic’s fall sounded like 50 or 60 years in the past, beyond the living memories of the principal characters. How could it have been 50-60 years before when Luke’s father was killed at the time, presumably after Luke had been conceived? What Han’s doubt indicates is that the Jedi’s were either not as integrated into society as Ep. 1-3 showed them, or they were completely discredited in the meantime in a convincing way. Remember, too, the force shown in the original Star Wars is a much more subtle thing than what we see in the later movies, closer to the chi claimed by some martial arts mystics than the ass kicking tool it became. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/33 "2010-07-29T16:33:36Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > or they were completely discredited in the meantime in a convincing way. This seems most likely. The Imperial propaganda machine would have painted the Jedi as a corrupt priesthood of charlatans that attempted to manipulate and gain control of the galactic government. Praise be to Emperor Palpatine for foiling their wicked plans! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/34 "2010-07-29T17:36:01Z")
> [@snoopygal](#): > > > [@Lumpy](#): > > > > Of course even after being informed that the shield facility is threatened, Palpatine seems more concerned with Luke and Vader than the imminent destruction of the Death Star II and everyone aboard. Apparently by then he was confident his mind transfer scheme would work, and is obsessed with concerns of the Force over purely military matters. > > I know nothing of any mind transfer scheme. Expanded Universe, hinted at in Revenge of the Sith: Palpatine and/or his former master discovered a way to transfer one’s conciousness into a cloned body, thereby having the potential to be immortal. In the Expanded Universe Palpatine survived the destruction of DS2 this way. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/35 "2010-07-29T17:41:39Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > How could it have been 50-60 years before when Luke’s father was killed at the time, presumably after Luke had been conceived? The first movie, to the best of my recollection, does not imply that the fall of the Republic and the “death” of Luke’s father happened at the same time, or that the (near) extinction of the Jedi happened as quickly as later movies would have it. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/36 "2010-07-29T17:55:15Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > What Han’s doubt indicates is that the Jedi’s were either not as integrated into society as Ep. 1-3 showed them, or they were completely discredited in the meantime in a convincing way. Actually, it was Episodes 1-3 that showed Jedi weren’t as widespread as previously thought. The sheer size of the Senate meant that billions, perhaps trillions, of residents lived with the Republic. While the number of Jedi probably numbered only in thousands. It’s likely that most people lived their whole life and died without ever being on the same planet as a Jedi. For further proof, in Episode I Anakin thought Jedis were immortal. He got the comic book treatment of Jedis (and the ensuing urban legends) that someone living in a society with real superheroes gets. Han Solo would have been a toddler when the Jedi were wiped out. And the Jedi comic books would have likely been purged. To him, they may as well have never existed. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/37 "2010-07-29T18:00:01Z")
> [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](#): > > [Obligatory](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMDX8e-zEgo&feature=related). (Warning: Uncensored) Wow! I never saw that Robot Chicken episode before. Thanks for the link. God that was amazing… so many quotes to steal from that. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/38 "2010-07-29T19:47:28Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > [@Strassia](#): > > > > What Han’s doubt indicates is that the Jedi’s were either not as integrated into society as Ep. 1-3 showed them, or they were completely discredited in the meantime in a convincing way. > > Actually, it was Episodes 1-3 that showed Jedi weren’t as widespread as previously thought. The sheer size of the Senate meant that billions, perhaps trillions, of residents lived with the Republic. While the number of Jedi probably numbered only in thousands. It’s likely that most people lived their whole life and died without ever being on the same planet as a Jedi. > > For further proof, in Episode I Anakin thought Jedis were immortal. He got the comic book treatment of Jedis (and the ensuing urban legends) that someone living in a society with real superheroes gets. Han Solo would have been a toddler when the Jedi were wiped out. And the Jedi comic books would have likely been purged. To him, they may as well have never existed. This. I, II and III make vague references to the fact that the Jedi had so cut themselves from the rest of society that they were losing touch with the Force. That is why they were unable to discover the Sith Lord living right down the street, taking over the government. By the time of SW, the Jedi and the idea of the Force had been subject to an intanse PR campaign to discredit the Jedi and paint them as fakes and charlatans who had been leeches on society. This may be why General Motti feels comfortable dismissing Vader’s attempts to reover the Death Star plans, as well. Han is not the only SW character to doubt the Force. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/39 "2010-07-29T23:27:12Z")
Well, the Jedi do seem to be a bit mentally challenged about the whole thing. “I know, since The Force runs in families, let’s require the Force-strong people who join us to **not have families**!!!” :smack: Whereas they should have been more like the Psicorps from Babylon 5, intentionally breeding their strongest people together to create stronger Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260/40 "2010-07-30T03:47:47Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The Imperial propaganda machine would have painted the Jedi as a corrupt priesthood of charlatans that attempted to manipulate and gain control of the galactic government. Praise be to Emperor Palpatine for foiling their wicked plans! Indeed! And it’d be so easy to set up outlets for talented people eager to enter public service for the greater good, like the “(Imperial) Academy” that Luke wants so much to go off and join early in Episode IV, or even local LEO sub-groups of Stormtroopers. > [@Gagundathar](#): > > > [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](#): > > > > [Obligatory](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMDX8e-zEgo&feature=related). (Warning: Uncensored) > > Wow! I never saw that Robot Chicken episode before. > Thanks for the link. > God that was amazing… so many quotes to steal from that. Try [this one out too](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bocmVZXXY8w), then 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-destruction-of-the-first-death-star/548260.md?page=3)