# Darth Vader and the Wicked Witch **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2001, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593 "2001-05-16T12:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/1 "2001-05-16T12:21:26Z")
I’ve heard that Darth Vader’s march tune (Imperial March…is this what’s it called?) is a very slow down version (or has the same notes) of/as the tune that goes on when Elmira Gulch is riding her bike to Dorthy’s house in **The Wizard of Oz**. Is this true? I tried asking people in a Star Wars group but they yelled at me (for not respecting John William’s work-like hell I don’t. I love his work) and never answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/2 "2001-05-16T12:24:44Z")
This seems like an appropriate time to resurrect one of the first questions I posed on the SDMB – has anyone else noticed that the theme from **The X-Files** sounds a LOT like a “spookified” version of the theme song from the 1960s comedy **The Mothers-in-Law**? Neptune: running both songs in my head, I have to say it sounds _roughly_ similar, but only approximately. I think the X-Files/ Mothers-in-Law thing is closer. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/3 "2001-05-16T12:26:07Z")
I’ve never heard this, but it is interesting. Sounds like a myth, though. The parallels between Vader and the Witch are striking, though. My favorite line from Star Wars? “Come to the Dark Side, my Pretty!, or my army of flying monkey Storm Troopers will get you and your little droid too!” ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/4 "2001-05-16T12:34:05Z")
There’s a simple way to test this hypothesis. Simply downl-- er, _buy_ a copy of the _Wizard of Oz_ soundtrack and compare. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/5 "2001-05-16T12:53:09Z")
As long as we’re comparing movie themes, how about this little hijack: The rhythm of the theme from _Born Free_ is **the exact same as the rhythm** of the theme from _Lawrence of Arabia_ — a very distinctive rhythm: a half note, a dotted half note, a quarter note, and a triplet of quarter notes. Repeated. DAH-daah, dah dadada DAH-daah, dah dadada The melodic contours are different, but **they both begin with a descending fourth.** The triplet is ascending in _Lawrence of Arabia_ and descending in _Born Free_. Very curious. Who are the composers for these two themes? Who copied from whom? ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/6 "2001-05-16T13:49:02Z")
Wicked Witch to Darth Vader: “I’ll get you in my bed, my pretty and your little Ewok too!” 😃 If anyone’s interested, there’s a melodic phrase in Stravinsky’s Rites of Spring that sounds nearly identical to the Jaws theme. ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/7 "2001-05-16T14:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neptune\_1984 \* > \*\*I’ve heard that Darth Vader’s march tune (Imperial March…is this what’s it called?) is a very slow down version (or has the same notes) of/as the tune that goes on when Elmira Gulch is riding her bike to Dorthy’s house in **The Wizard of Oz**. Is this true? > > I tried asking people in a Star Wars group but they yelled at me (for not respecting John William’s work-like hell I don’t. I love his work) and never answered my question. > > \*\* Okay, I’ll answer the question. No, they are not the same. for one thing, the first 3 notes of the Imperial March are the same pitch, while the first 3 notes of Miss Gulch’s theme are not. The rest of it is different too but I admit they are reminiscent of each other. Not that you asked, but when _Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace_ came out, the main character of one of my favorite comic strips, [The Norm,](http://www.thenorm.com) ran an extended plotline about it with extra content on his web site. One of those things was a [MIDI song](http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Shores/5972/FBD/norm.html) that merges the Imperial March and the main title theme from the original _Star Wars_ with Vince Guaraldi’s “Linus & Lucy” theme from the _Peanuts_ TV specials. It’s called “Luke & Leia”… Check it out. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/8 "2001-05-16T14:05:43Z")
When the Special Edition of _Return of the Jedi_ was released a few years ago, they re-did the music for the end celebration on Endor. It sounded just like Copland’s “Fanfare for the Common Man” that I wanted to do a cover of “Fanfare” with sound effects from RotJ and call it “Fanfare for the Common Ewok.” ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/9 "2001-05-16T16:26:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _Jomo Mojo says:_ The melodic contours are different, but they both begin with a descending fourth. The triplet is ascending in Lawrence of Arabia and descending in Born Free. Very curious. Who are the composers for these two themes? Who copied from whom? _Lawrence_ was written by Maurice Jarre in 1962 and _Born_ by John Barry in 1966 and both won Oscars for their efforts. Both are extremely talented and had numerous credits under their belts at the time so I think it’s an interesting comparison, nothing more. (And I think there are very few musical similarities between the _Empire_ and _Wizard_ themes mentioned beyond a minor key) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/10 "2001-05-16T19:23:13Z")
furryman wrote: > [@](#): > > If anyone’s interested, there’s a melodic phrase in Stravinsky’s Rites of Spring that sounds nearly identical to the Jaws theme. Not only that, but the opening bars of Dvorak’s 9th Symphony, 4th Movement, are the spittin’ image of the opening bars of the _Jaws_ theme. Incidentally, you know that song from Mary Poppins that goes “Just a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down”? Well, its chorus works eerily well if sung to the tune of the second phrase in Darth Vader’s theme: _SPOON full-o’ SUGAR helps the medicine … go down, Helps the medicine … go down, In the most delightful waaaaaaaay_ ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/11 "2001-05-16T22:06:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _tracer says_: Not only that, but the opening bars of Dvorak’s 9th Symphony, 4th Movement, are the spittin’ image of the opening bars of the Jaws theme. Uh, no. The opening notes (specifically two notes repeating back and forth a couple of times), I suppose. But opening _bars_ also means tempo and note lengths and they are completely different in this area. That _Empire_ lyric is pretty funny, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2001, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-and-the-wicked-witch/65593/12 "2001-05-18T15:57:45Z")
ArchiveGuy wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _tracer says_: Not only that, but the opening bars of Dvorak’s 9th Symphony, 4th Movement, are the spittin’ image of the opening bars of the Jaws theme. > > Uh, no. The opening notes (specifically two notes repeating back and forth a couple of times), I suppose. But opening _bars_ also means tempo and note lengths and they are completely different in this area. But … but … but, the first couple of bars of Dvorak’s 9th, 4th movement, also **speed up** the back-and-forth repeat of the two notes, just like how they speed up at the opening of the _Jaws_ theme! Well, **sorta** like how they speed up at the opening of the _Jaws_ theme. And speaking of lyrics to John Williams’ music, how about this little ditty I whipped up for Raiders of the Lost Ark two decades ago (specifically to the “Raiders March” at the end of the record): \*You’re a fighter, you’re a man You’re a teacher with a debonair hand You’re the master of the whip, But despite all these things, man, you sure are a dri-ip! (Chorus:) He’s a fighter, he’s a man He’s a teacher with a debonair hand He’s the master of the whip, But despite all these things, man, he sure is a dri-ip! You will step … over one and all, You’ll survive … a long snake-pit fall, You’re the one … with whom our fates rest, You can slay and save pretty well, but say you’re the best. Stand alone, you don’t need a Han’, Do it Solo – what a Star Wars man! Fool around in the desert sand, Don’tcha know you’re supposed to be lookin’ for some kind of ark, While you, the Germans, and Marion shift into Park, So get out there and bring it back so we can hide it away and make certain that you leave no mark! You’re the bravest, you’re the all, You can whip them up against a wall, You will never throw a fit, But despite all these things, man, you know that with women, ya can’t score worth shhhhhhhhhhaving cream. You lived in an OK time, Though the movies cost an entire dime, The economy was bad, But compared to the world now your time seem real gla-ad. (Chorus:) He’s a fighter, he’s a man He’s a teacher with a debonair hand He’s the master of the whip, But despite all these things, man, he sure is a dri-ip! I’m beginning to wonder about you And the hypocritical things you do In all of Africa you never once stepped in doggie doo – Indiana Jones!\*