# Darth Vader vs Gandalf **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508 "2014-04-19T21:08:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/1 "2014-04-19T21:08:14Z")
I just stumbled across this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwP2vnQCoho), and it got me thinking. (a quick search of thread titles didn’t pop up anything obvious, so please link if discussed before). Just for wimsy’s sake, in this cross-canon showdown–who wins? Sith powers vs wizardry. I imagine a lightsaber could cut an Elven blade in two if they met. The video also raises the question of would Anakin Skywalker defeat Vader? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/2 "2014-04-19T21:32:44Z")
Vader kills Gandalf in the first fight, but he comes back “more powerful than Vader can possibly imagine” as Gandalf the White and kicks some Sith ass. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/3 "2014-04-19T21:38:51Z")
Vader wins in a squash. Gandalf can’t dps his way out of a wet paper bag. Force choke = fight over. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/4 "2014-04-19T21:50:28Z")
As an added bonus, what could Darth Vader do with the Ring of Power? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/5 "2014-04-19T21:51:38Z")
Gandalf could just summon a bunch of giant eagles to help. Cue a bunch of people telling me why the eagles wouldn’t/couldn’t do it… ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/6 "2014-04-19T21:55:09Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Vader wins in a squash. Gandalf can’t dps his way out of a wet paper bag. Force choke = fight over. **Oakminster** , just to be clear–is \*\*dps \*\*in this use mean “damage per second”? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/7 "2014-04-19T22:07:46Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Gandalf could just summon a bunch of giant eagles to help. > > Cue a bunch of people telling me why the eagles wouldn’t/couldn’t do it… Cue: Wouldn’t Vader just slash through the Eagles just like he did the Wookies in the one novel set right after he became a cyborg? ETA: I believe there’s a scene where he uses his lightsaber as a “boomerang”, so flying targets can’t evade Vader’s evil Sith powers… ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/8 "2014-04-19T23:11:26Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Sith powers vs wizardry. I imagine a lightsaber could cut an Elven blade in two if they met. Not so fast. A light saber couldn’t destroy a ring of power so maybe a sword with elvish runes could resist it too. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/9 "2014-04-19T23:13:41Z")
Gandalf wouldn’t even break a sweat. He’s got Mayar Mojo. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/10 "2014-04-20T00:10:10Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > **Oakminster** , just to be clear–is \*\*dps \*\*in this use mean “damage per second”? Ye shall not pass Web Abbreviations 101. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/11 "2014-04-20T00:32:05Z")
This fight entirely depends on how much the combatants know about each other prior to combat. If Vader lets Gandalf start some incantations, he could be in serious trouble; force-choke right away. If Gandalf knows what kinds of things Vader could use the Force for, he could find a way to circumvent them; illusions and so forth. My impression of Gandalf is that he was far more powerful than anyone realized during the whole Hobbit/Lord of the Rings thing, but that he held back from just dominating everything because his purpose was to help the lowly rise to the top. I don’t see a whole lot of stuff from the force other than a Spider-sense and some TK, maybe a little enhanced empathic ability, etc. Could Vader defeat a Balrog? Maybe. But then again, if Gandalf lived in a world where the Force was a real thing, don’t you think he’d know about it, and probably know how to use it as well? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/12 "2014-04-20T00:37:29Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > This fight entirely depends on how much the combatants know about each other prior to combat. “So he can’t breathe if I push that button on his chest?” ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/13 "2014-04-20T00:53:39Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > This fight entirely depends on how much the combatants know about each other prior to combat. If Vader lets Gandalf start some incantations, he could be in serious trouble; force-choke right away. If Gandalf knows what kinds of things Vader could use the Force for, he could find a way to circumvent them; illusions and so forth. My impression of Gandalf is that he was far more powerful than anyone realized during the whole Hobbit/Lord of the Rings thing, but that he held back from just dominating everything because his purpose was to help the lowly rise to the top. I don’t see a whole lot of stuff from the force other than a Spider-sense and some TK, maybe a little enhanced empathic ability, etc. Could Vader defeat a Balrog? Maybe. But then again, if Gandalf lived in a world where the Force was a real thing, don’t you think he’d know about it, and probably know how to use it as well? For the love of God **Cukhoorex** , please use paragraphs–you make interesting points, but the wall-o-text is hard to follow… ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/14 "2014-04-20T01:40:23Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > **Oakminster** , just to be clear–is \*\*dps \*\*in this use mean “damage per second”? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/15 "2014-04-20T01:41:12Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > As an added bonus, what could Darth Vader do with the Ring of Power? He would give all of the rebels severe constipation until they capitulated. And yes, that little pecker head Yoda too. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/16 "2014-04-20T03:11:15Z")
A reluctant vote for Vader. He has access to more different kinds of power. He has the Force, a lightsaber, blasters, computers, droids, gravity fields, blast doors, drop shafts, airlocks, etc. Gandalf would be at a disadvantage in his environment. Put the fight in Mirkwood, and Gandalf doesn’t lose so much of the edge, but he is still outflanked by all the various kinds of energies that Vader can fling. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/17 "2014-04-20T06:49:07Z")
I’ve only seen the LotR movies, and never read the books, but I was never clear on exactly what powers Gandalf even had. So I vote for Vader. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/18 "2014-04-20T06:51:17Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > He would give all of the rebels severe constipation until they capitulated. And yes, that little pecker head Yoda too. Turning invisible is not a huge advantage for vader: Luke: I sense an evil presence. \ Luke: Everybody shoot in that corner! Vader is trying to hide behind the potato chips! ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/19 "2014-04-20T08:00:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Vader wins in a squash. Gandalf can’t dps his way out of a wet paper bag. Force choke = fight over. I agree. Gandalf’s powerful, but it seems like all of his stuff requires concentration or “charging up.” Vader just immediately opens with a lightsaber throw or force choke and it’s over before it really begins. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/20 "2014-04-20T08:16:15Z")
Well no duh Gandalf can’t keep up damage, he’s a support. He needs tanking from Gimli and ranged DPS from Legolas. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508.md?page=2)