# Darth Vader vs Gandalf **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508 "2014-04-19T21:08:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/21 "2014-04-20T10:39:11Z")
Gandalf’s basically a god. He wins. His body might be destroyed, but that’s at worst a minor inconvenience - especially if Iluvatar wants him to win. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/22 "2014-04-20T11:13:17Z")
Did anyone ever think to use a flamethrower on a Jedi in the EU? Seems like that would be difficult to block with a lightsaber. I think Gandalf’s best bet would be to try and set Vader on fire. Other than that, Gandalf’s boned. He isn’t too shabby with a sword, but nowhere in Vader’s class. Even if they both fight with ordinary blades, Vader would hand him his head. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/23 "2014-04-20T14:23:26Z")
Gandalf cannot be killed. That would make him “the late Gandalf.” And as we all know, a wizard is never late. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/24 "2014-04-20T14:45:38Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Did anyone ever think to use a flamethrower on a Jedi in the EU? Seems like that would be difficult to block with a lightsaber. Well, in RPG, we thought of using a shotgun, as well a full-auto submachineguns. Worked pretty well. Blocking a blaster bolt with a lightsaber is neat; blocking an amorphous hail of high-velocity metal is another thing entirely. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/25 "2014-04-20T14:48:51Z")
All Gandalf needs to do is throw one fireball @ Vader - he’ll go up like charcoal (or be left cowering in fear). ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/26 "2014-04-20T15:30:43Z")
Couldn’t Vader use the Force to deflect fireballs or shotgun blasts? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/27 "2014-04-20T15:40:19Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Did anyone ever think to use a flamethrower on a Jedi in the EU? Seems like that would be difficult to block with a lightsaber. > > I think Gandalf’s best bet would be to try and set Vader on fire. > > Other than that, Gandalf’s boned. He isn’t too shabby with a sword, but nowhere in Vader’s class. Even if they both fight with ordinary blades, Vader would hand him his head. Dude, Gandalf is the equivalent of a _freakin’_ angel. If given full release to apply his powers without restraint, the fight’s over before it even begins. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/28 "2014-04-20T15:47:26Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Couldn’t Vader use the Force to deflect fireballs or shotgun blasts? Do we ever see any Jedi deflect an area affect weapon? We see them deflecting huge boulders, but that’s one item (granted, a _huge_ item, but still, just one). I’d give them one, may be two blasts, but if you were to unload with [this,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer) I think it possible to overload their ability to grab stuff and deflect. After all, the Clones, in executing Order 66, essentially brough their various Jedi targets down by a combination of surprise _and_ “overloading” their ability to deflect stuff. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/29 "2014-04-20T16:32:11Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Do we ever see any Jedi deflect an area affect weapon? We see them deflecting huge boulders, but that’s one item (granted, a _huge_ item, but still, just one). > > I’d give them one, may be two blasts, but if you were to unload with [this,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer) I think it possible to overload their ability to grab stuff and deflect. > > After all, the Clones, in executing Order 66, essentially brough their various Jedi targets down by a combination of surprise _and_ “overloading” their ability to deflect stuff. Good observations. But, we see Vader manipulate various objects in _TESB_, so why not a cloud of shotgun pellets? In the movie, it’s many attackers versus a regular Jedi. Wouldn’t a Sith Lord bring more to the table? And, is Gandalf going to use a shotgun? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/30 "2014-04-20T16:37:47Z")
Light saber: Gandalf would burn it out of Vader’s hands. Without a weapon, Vader is much weaker than, say, a Balrog. Which Gandalf killed _before_ he leveled up. Force: the only thing I can see working is telekinesis since he’s already been shown to go toe to toe physically with anything. I guess if the fight takes place next to a cliff and the Eagles aren’t nearby, Vader has a chance. On the other hand, what Vader would do with the One Ring raises an interesting oxymoron. The Ring corrupts, but it is the philosophy of the Sith that the apprentice will always eventually try to overthrow the master. If Vader got the Ring, would he be corrupted _away_ from that philosophy he’s dedicated himself to? Possibly becoming a hippie? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/31 "2014-04-20T16:54:02Z")
Vader’s already corrupt; the ring would make him even more so. It’s not a Helm of Opposite Alignment. But to the OP, Vader would have an edge in a toe-to-toe fight, but it doesn’t matter, since Gandalf has way too much sense ever to get into such a fight with him. Gandalf wins strategically, not tactically. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/32 "2014-04-20T17:03:55Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > I agree. Gandalf’s powerful, but it seems like all of his stuff requires concentration or “charging up.” Vader just immediately opens with a lightsaber throw or force choke and it’s over before it really begins. I see Gandalf shaking off a force choke. I do think Vader would being quicker. That is how Yoda describes the dark side. Vader from the original trilogy is a towering, enigmatic source of darkness. But the prequels introduced us to Anakin. Anakin is an extremely powerful force user who is prone to rash actions that put him at a disadvantage whenever he goes up against anyone that isn’t also evil. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/33 "2014-04-20T18:27:30Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Dude, Gandalf is the equivalent of a _freakin’_ angel. If given full release to apply his powers without restraint, the fight’s over before it even begins. No. Tolkien’s ‘angels’ aren’t invincible. They can’t be permanently killed, but they can be defeated. Balrogs have been taken down. Sauron was beaten in a fight. Fingolfin was able to bleed Morgoth himself, before getting stomped. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/34 "2014-04-20T18:47:55Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > After all, the Clones, in executing Order 66, essentially brough their various Jedi targets down by a combination of surprise _and_ “overloading” their ability to deflect stuff. Heck, in the movie before that, we see Jango Fett take on a Jedi solo by simply drawing a sidearm and firing blast after blast after blast after blast in rapid succession: the Jedi swiftly parries three or four shots before one gets past his guard and, well, fight’s over. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/35 "2014-04-20T19:58:01Z")
Gandalf wins, of course. He had the wisdom of ages and a ring of power against a whiny brat in black armor. Heck, Eowyn & Merry could probably take DV ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/36 "2014-04-20T20:05:08Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Do we ever see any Jedi deflect an area affect weapon? In the Tartakovsky Clone Wars animated series (better than all the prequels put together imo) Obi-wan deflects bullets and flames. [See here.](http://youtu.be/D6LeL3s4Q80?t=1m35s) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/37 "2014-04-20T20:39:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > All Gandalf needs to do is throw one fireball @ Vader - he’ll go up like charcoal (or be left cowering in fear). Gandalf apparently failed his roll to learn _Fireball_, otherwise he would have used it at Helm’s Deep. The most useful spell he managed to learn was apparently _Affect Normal Fires._ ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/38 "2014-04-20T21:09:18Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Gandalf apparently failed his roll to learn _Fireball_, otherwise he would have used it at Helm’s Deep. The most useful spell he managed to learn was apparently _Affect Normal Fires._ Which should still make Vader a little antsy - I’m sure he remembers his time in the volcano pit _ **fondly** _ ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/39 "2014-04-20T21:14:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Gandalf apparently failed his roll to learn _Fireball_, otherwise he would have used it at Helm’s Deep. The most useful spell he managed to learn was apparently _Affect Normal Fires._ If you closely examine [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE328QhF-VA) at the 1:20 mark or so you’ll see he clearly uses Sunburst to great effect. I wouldn’t be surprised if the min/maxing douche took some Mystic Theurge levels or something on top of it all. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508/40 "2014-04-21T15:54:03Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > For the love of God **Cukhoorex** , please use paragraphs–you make interesting points, but the wall-o-text is hard to follow… Are you viewing the page on a mobile device or something? I’m having a hard time thinking of my dinky little post as a “wall-o-text.” But then, you seem to make a new paragraph for every sentence you post. Like this. Anyway, I think the key question which has been brought up so far is: can Gandalf counteract the Force? Certainly some Star Wars characters seemed to be immune to some Force effects, like Jabba the Hut not being charmed by Luke Skywalker’s Jedi Mind Trick. So it’s not like the Force automatically trumps anything else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-gandalf/686508.md?page=3)