# Darth Vader vs Victor Von Doom--for all the marbles **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 3, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830 "2009-07-03T17:24:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/21 "2009-07-05T03:13:58Z")
Doom wins. He could beat Vader on his worst day. Of course this all subject to which character you like the most, but IMO Doom is the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/22 "2009-07-05T11:02:55Z")
Doom’s the ultimate mack daddy, ego the size of a planet. Vader has ultimate daddy issues. You do the math. Also, you realize it’s not really Doom fighting on the hill, don’t you ? Yes, yes I’m sure every last DoomBot has been destroyed, and everyone’s really really sure this is the real Doom. And we all know that only spells “one more DoomBot” :). So Vader can’t win anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/23 "2009-07-05T19:09:13Z")
Doom in a massive curbstomp. It’s not even close. Doom can hold his own against Dr. Strange. Doom whose shields have held off Thor’s hammer. Doom who on sheer willpower held off the purple man who was then controlling the entire planet. Doom who conquered the known universe. If we go by feats then Doom has them in the hundred. Doom for the easy win. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/24 "2009-07-06T01:49:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And Luke against Ben? Ben is going to (a) break free of the mind trick fairly quickly, and (b) be moved into a murderous rage by the use of the mind trick in the first place. After that, it’s just a matter of cleaning Jedi smear off his boots. Quibble: This one might not be as clear-cut. Something about being The Thing makes Ben (who doesn’t get this way when he’s not orange and rocky) especially susceptible to mind control. I can count dozens of times where Ben was mind-controlled into attacking the other members. Mind-control is kind of his kryptonite. That said, he’s not “weak willed” even remotely, so he might be able to resist since we know that’s how the Jedi mind trick works. It’s just not as clear-cut as it would otherwise seem. Another comparison. There’s no doubt that Galactus could eat the Death Star Mark II WITH the Emperor and Vader on board fighting Galactus. Galactus ate the Skrull Homeworld with Dire Wraiths casting spells, and the bulk of one the three most powerful empires in the universe throwing _everything_ they had at him. And lost. The Empire doesn’t stand a chance against Galactus. Dr Doom has beaten Galactus once (or twice?) _singlehanded_ and beaten the various Heralds any number of times. The only person who’s got a better track record going solo (Reed always had help) against Galactus than Doom is Dr. Strange who twiddled his fingers and summoned up the ghosts of everyone who Galactus has killed over the millenia. (Galactus sorta whimpered and fainted). Doom regularly took on Dr. Strange. He lost, but just barely each time. Doom wins against the Vader without blinking, against the Emperor without working up much of a sweat and against the Death Star with some effort. ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/25 "2009-07-06T04:16:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Doom regularly took on Dr. Strange. He lost, but just barely each time. > > Doom wins against the Vader without blinking, against the Emperor without working up much of a sweat and against the Death Star with some effort. And yet Doom got his butt kicked on a regular basis by an angsty teenager whose major superpower consists of hands and feet sticky enough to cling to walls. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/26 "2009-07-06T04:34:30Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > And yet Doom got his butt kicked on a regular basis by an angsty teenager whose major superpower consists of hands and feet sticky enough to cling to walls. He’s a Fantastic Four villain, not Spider-Man. Besides, Spider-Man’s no pushover, since he’s got pretty much every Charles Atlas superpower there is cranked up to eleven, and enough prescience to evade most attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/27 "2009-07-06T15:24:32Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > He’s a Fantastic Four villain, not Spider-Man. Besides, Spider-Man’s no pushover, since he’s got pretty much every Charles Atlas superpower there is cranked up to eleven, and enough prescience to evade most attacks. I’m pretty sure **SmashtheState** is referring to the 80s solo Spider-Man cartoon, in which Doom was the major recurring villain. There was no Fantastic Four in that universe, and it was stated more than once that Spidey was the only hero who had successfully gone up against Doom; it got to the point where, when Doom would embark on a world-conquest scheme, the first thing the government did was call Spidey. I imagine that J. Jonah Jameson didn’t have a lot of credibility in this world. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/28 "2009-07-06T22:27:37Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m pretty sure **SmashtheState** is referring to the 80s solo Spider-Man cartoon, in which Doom was the major recurring villain. There was no Fantastic Four in that universe, and it was stated more than once that Spidey was the only hero who had successfully gone up against Doom; it got to the point where, when Doom would embark on a world-conquest scheme, the first thing the government did was call Spidey. > > I imagine that J. Jonah Jameson didn’t have a lot of credibility in this world. He must be since I don’t recall Spider-Man actually defeating Doom. I’d like to know of what issue or storyline he’s referring to. It would have to be either the best written story in Spidey comics (if he did win and it made sense without some contrived plot that actually lets Spidey win) or the worst (with a really stupid plot device or writing that allows Spidey to win.). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/29 "2009-07-06T23:51:53Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > He must be since I don’t recall Spider-Man actually defeating Doom. I’d like to know of what issue or storyline he’s referring to. > > It would have to be either the best written story in Spidey comics (if he did win and it made sense without some contrived plot that actually lets Spidey win) or the worst (with a really stupid plot device or writing that allows Spidey to win.). In the comic books, I don’t think Spidey’s ever come close. I think he has no illusions about coming close; I’m sure his policy in case of having to fight Doom is to run as fast as he can while screaming “Ben! Sue! Johnny! Reed! SOMEBODY!” But 80s cartoon Spidey was a bit more successful. He took down Magneto once too. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/30 "2009-07-07T00:32:30Z")
I guess then we’d have to ask the OP whether or not he’s including animated adventures as canon in this. (To my mind, the cartoons aren’t “canon”. Continuity is complicated enough in the MU. But its not my thread) ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/31 "2009-07-07T13:46:10Z")
Wait, when did Dr. Doom become magic? Wasn’t he just a evil genius/mad scientist with a knack for making robot look-alikes? The Doom I remember would have been force-slapped around like a little girl. The first time anyway. But once his genius had time to figure out what happened, do a little research, and build some anti-midichlorian devices into his armor, it might be a different story… ---
**Author:** ![critter42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@critter42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/critter42)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/32 "2009-07-07T14:28:28Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Wait, when did Dr. Doom become magic? At least since the 80s (though I seem to recall some stories in the 70s) - his mystical abilities were noted in the original OHOTMU (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe), but IIRC, the mystical stuff really cranked in to high gear earlier this decade. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/33 "2009-07-07T15:32:29Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > The Doom I remember would have been force-slapped around like a little girl. > The first time anyway. But once his genius had time to figure out what happened, do a little research, and build some anti-midichlorian devices into his armor, it might be a different story… Is there a semi-definitive list of super-geniuses in the MU? ---
**Author:** ![De\_La\_Rue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@De\_La\_Rue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/De_La_Rue)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/34 "2009-07-07T15:41:04Z")
Let us not forget that Doom has been beaten by Squirrel Girl. ---
**Author:** ![critter42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@critter42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/critter42)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/35 "2009-07-07T15:58:29Z")
But let’s also not forget that Squirrel Girl has defeated Thanos, MODOK, Mandarin, Pluto (the god, not the dog) and Terrax also - none of whom are exactly slouches in the villain department. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/36 "2009-07-07T17:22:26Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Is there a semi-definitive list of super-geniuses in the MU? To me, it goes something like: [ul] [li]Reed Richards–10.0[/li][li]Victor von Doom–9.8[/li][li]Tony Stark–3[/li][li]Everyone else–not measurable on this scale[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/37 "2009-07-07T20:57:40Z")
> [@De\_La\_Rue](#): > > Let us not forget that Doom has been beaten by Squirrel Girl. Only because of problems of quality control. Namely, Marvel Comics doesn’t have any. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/38 "2009-07-07T21:10:43Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > To me, it goes something like: > [ul] > [li]Reed Richards–10.0[/li][li]Victor von Doom–9.8[/li][li]Tony Stark–3[/li][li]Everyone else–not measurable on this scale[/li][/ul] I think you got your number 1 & number 2 mixed up. I can’t think of anything Richards has done that Doom could not do (other than maintain a reasonably healthy family relationship), whereas Doom mastered the mystic arts in a way that Richards seems unable to. I’d go Doom – 100 (master of all sorts of engineering, life sciences, & magic, and respoinsible for theoretical breakthroughs in multiple areas Richards – 90 (equal to Doom in non-magic tech, but not in magic) Stark – 70 (probablya better engineer than the first two, but lacking their skill in life sciences, not responsible for any theoretical breakthroughs, and hopeless in magic) Pym – 70 (the most skilled in this group in life sciences, responsible for at least one theoretical physics breakthrough, but not as good an engineer as the first three) Xavier, McCoy, Magneto, & the like-40 (mostly restricted to one or two areas) Parker–10 (a super-genius by real world standards, but merely very bright by comic book standards) Of course, pre-Crisis Brainiac 5 would eat all their lunches. ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/39 "2009-07-07T23:10:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Doom – 100 (master of all sorts of engineering, life sciences, & magic, and respoinsible for theoretical breakthroughs in multiple areas > Richards – 90 (equal to Doom in non-magic tech, but not in magic) > Stark – 70 (probablya better engineer than the first two, but lacking their skill in life sciences, not responsible for any theoretical breakthroughs, and hopeless in magic) > Pym – 70 (the most skilled in this group in life sciences, responsible for at least one theoretical physics breakthrough, but not as good an engineer as the first three) > Xavier, McCoy, Magneto, & the like-40 (mostly restricted to one or two areas) > Parker–10 (a super-genius by real world standards, but merely very bright by comic book standards) > > Of course, pre-Crisis Brainiac 5 would eat all their lunches. You left out a big pile of others: Otto Octavius (Dr. Octopus) Samuel Sterns (The Leader) Bruce Banner (The Hulk) Johann Schmidt (Red Skull) Baron Heinrich Zemo Walter Langkowski (Sasquatch) Roger Bochs (Box) Alec Thorne (Smart Alec) Norman Osborne (Green Goblin) The Mandarin Nathaniel Essex (Mr. Sinister) Admittedly they’re mostly second- and third-tier in the Marvel universe, but they’re all well into the realm of super-science that would be totally impossible in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830/40 "2009-07-07T23:14:49Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > He’s a Fantastic Four villain, not Spider-Man. Besides, Spider-Man’s no pushover, since he’s got pretty much every Charles Atlas superpower there is cranked up to eleven, and enough prescience to evade most attacks. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m pretty sure **SmashtheState** is referring to the 80s solo Spider-Man cartoon, in which Doom was the major recurring villain. There was no Fantastic Four in that universe, and it was stated more than once that Spidey was the only hero who had successfully gone up against Doom; it got to the point where, when Doom would embark on a world-conquest scheme, the first thing the government did was call Spidey. Actually, I was thinking of an Electric Company comic where Dr. Doom takes the United Nations hostage by putting a forcefield around the building, and Spider-Man ends up defeating him (because Peter Parker happened to be taking a tour of the UN Building at the time). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader-vs-victor-von-doom-for-all-the-marbles/501830.md?page=3)