# Darth Vader **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2002, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860 "2002-06-13T14:54:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BZ00000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@BZ00000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BZ00000)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/1 "2002-06-13T14:54:36Z")
Who thinks that when Lucas wrote the original Star Wars (epi 4), that Vader was Luke’s father? And it also seems to me that Vader’s position completely changes in Empire. In epi. 4 Tarkin is in total control of Vader and in Empire Vader can just kill whomever he wants. I think Vader was completely changed for Empire. In epi 4, he is the black knight, controled by the evil institution that the young hero has to destroy, before he can destroy the true evil of the black knight’s master. But in Empire he becomes something completely different. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/2 "2002-06-13T16:10:46Z")
I don’t think that Lucas had determined that Darth Vader was Luke’s father in the first movie. The conception of the Empire also changed throughout the movies. I’ve read the novelization of the first movie, and you get the idea that the Emperor is corrupt and isolated, or as the prologue to the novel says: > [@](#): > > Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic. > > Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people did not reach his ears. > > Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the Imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![ScriptAnalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@ScriptAnalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScriptAnalyst)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/3 "2002-06-13T23:01:30Z")
Wasn’t Vader’s whole mission in STAR WARS to track down the plans to the Death Star so that the Rebel Alliance couldn’t use the information to defeat the Empire’s new super weapon? Obviously, Vader fails miserably in his task, yet somehow someway when he gets back to the Emperor and presents himself as the only survivor of a disaster he failed to present, what does he get? Punishment? Torture? Execution? No – he gets a promotion! I’m sure there’s a joke here somewhere, about this being the way most corporations work. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/4 "2002-06-13T23:11:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ScriptAnalyst \* > \*\*Wasn’t Vader’s whole mission in STAR WARS to track down the plans to the Death Star so that the Rebel Alliance couldn’t use the information to defeat the Empire’s new super weapon? > > Obviously, Vader fails miserably in his task, yet somehow someway when he gets back to the Emperor and presents himself as the only survivor of a disaster he failed to present, what does he get? Punishment? Torture? Execution? No – he gets a promotion! > > I’m sure there’s a joke here somewhere, about this being the way most corporations work. \*\* EMPEROR: Looks like you’ve been missing a lot of work lately, Vader. VADER: I wouldn’t say I’ve been missing it, Emperor. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/5 "2002-06-13T23:41:50Z")
Considering that the German word for “father” is “Vater” (i.e. Vader), I think it’s pretty likely Lucas had it in mind. Also, the plot twist which has the hero and villian turn out to be brothers or father and son is an old one, and _Star Wars_ isn’t exactly a stellar example of original scriptwriting. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/6 "2002-06-14T00:03:30Z")
mr ekers has the right of it. i’ve read that lucas was using the name darth vader as a stand in for dark father. all the other darths seem to have a more sinister last name, maul, tyrannis, etc. vader is a bit blah. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/7 "2002-06-14T10:37:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Wasn’t Vader’s whole mission in STAR WARS to track down the plans to the Death Star so that the Rebel Alliance couldn’t use the information to defeat the Empire’s new super weapon? Well, sorta. I’ve always gotten the impression that it was completely serendipitous that Vader was involved. Most of the time, he acted as a free agent, and only reported to the Emperor about REALLY important matters. > [@](#): > > Obviously, Vader fails miserably in his task, yet somehow someway when he gets back to the Emperor and presents himself as the only survivor of a disaster he failed to present, what does he get? Punishment? Torture? Execution? No – he gets a promotion! Well… building the Death Star was Grand Moff Tarkin’s pet project (and he planned on using it to depose the Emperor, to boot). Vader was probably just hanging around to “assist” Tarkin… and to eliminate him if the Grand Moff began to get too feisty with his new toy. However… EU material does mention that Vader supposedly lost his right hand after the failure at Yavin (of course, we know that’s gotta be bunk, since we saw him lose his right hand in AOTC. Maybe Mara Jade’s memory was screwy and that’s when Vader lost his left hand?). ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darth-vader/113860/8 "2002-06-14T13:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > and he planned on using it to depose the Emperor, to boot This in the Novelization? Its not at all hinted at in the movies. In fact, it seems that the Imperial Military is very loyal.