# Darths: Vader vs. Maul **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 12, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637 "2002-07-12T15:24:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tetsusaru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f14d63/32.png) [@tetsusaru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tetsusaru)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/1 "2002-07-12T15:24:16Z")
Just watched The Phantom Menace again on TV, and it occurred to me that in the bad guy stakes, Darth Maul wasn`t fit to lick Darth Vader`s helmet. Flash back to Star Wars. Imagine you haven`t seen it before. Some bad-looking, skull-helmeted armoured dudes have just taken over a starship by force of arms. They start looking nervously about themselves. What could possibly scare these bad dudes? Suddenly this 7 foot tall black clad thing strides into the corridor: next thing you know, he`s breaking necks with an audible crunch. Ouch! He goes on to use nasty floating torture devices to extract information - this failing, he detonates entire planets as a form of extortion. We won`t even mention his habit of choking to death and tossing aside failed underlings like - well. failed underlings {"You have failed me for the last time."}, but let`s face it, this guy has “Don`t mess”. written all over him. And what do we see of Darth Maul? Folds his arms and glowers, yes. Looks like an Iron Maiden album cover, check. But what does he actually do? Picks fair fights with opponents twice his size - this failing, picks unfair fights with two opponents, one of whom is twice his size. When it comes to sneering, merciless villainy, he`s just a dabbler. Let`t`s face it, he should take Ming the Merciless` correspondence course. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/2 "2002-07-12T15:52:44Z")
Maul’s pretty nasty in his own right, if you read a lot of the books and stories set before Phantom Menace. If anybody’s asking, Vader beat Maul. Head to your local comic book shop and pick up _Star Wars Tales_ #9 from Dark Horse Comics. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/3 "2002-07-12T16:42:22Z")
How would Vader beat Maul? He was 9 when Maul died… ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/4 "2002-07-12T16:53:49Z")
Oy. To recap: the story took place about a year before Episode IV. Vader was searching for the stolen Death Star plans, and traced them to a distant outer rim world. Turns out the plans weren’t there, and Vader was falsely lured there by some Sith heretics who resurrected Maul (plot device, move along) to test him against Vader. The winning Sith would get to be the Emperor’s true apprentice. The story strongly hinted that Palpatine was behind the whole thing in an effort to determine whether Vader was a true Sith, or if he still had “the light” in him. We also don’t know if it was the true Maul: was it a clone, a surgical duplicate, a ghost? It certainly looked, talked, and move like the real deal. The story was basically written as a fan’s dream story, so we didn’t really have to worry about explanations. It’s a one-time deal. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/5 "2002-07-12T17:08:57Z")
Darth Maul is one of the worst villains in the history of film – no personality at all, and an inability to do anything other than hit people with sticks. Vader had power. Maul would have been dead before he got near enough to get out his stick. ---
**Author:** ![Jimson\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@Jimson\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimson_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/6 "2002-07-12T17:32:12Z")
Major hijack coming…… Who gives a rat’s but about Maul. Everyone agrees he’s a poor villain, more of a glorified thug. Vader would kill him like any other failing underling. Now Count Dooku, that’s a villain. He lies, he deceives and erases data. He creates the warriors both sides will need to fight an intergalactic war which will serve to catapult is Master to power and ultimately bring the end to the Republic. That’s evil on a grand scale. As far a power goes he defeats Obi Wan, who defeated Maul. And for an encore lops an arm off young Vader. For a second encore he does the ‘electric Force’ thing. Dooku would have kicked Mauls but. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/7 "2002-07-12T19:49:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jimson Jim \* > \*\*And for an encore lops an arm off young Vader. \*\* Ummm, he only sabered off Anakin’s hand, so now you must :smack: yourself. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/8 "2002-07-12T20:55:40Z")
I dare say we will see Aanakin vs. Dooku in Ep III. But if Aanakin/Vader recieves his suit-up injuries in that duel and not in a duel with Obi Wan, I’m turning in my fanclub card. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/9 "2002-07-12T21:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > He lies, he deceives and erases data. He _erases data_? That monster! That cold, blackhearted scoundrel! Surely, this is the basest of base villains! Vader blew up a couple planets, but _erasing data?!?!_ Sorry. Can’t help myself sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/10 "2002-07-12T21:50:00Z")
Well I liked Maul, but got a bad rap in TPM. He’s like the Clyde Drexler / Warren Moon of the Sith. ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/11 "2002-07-12T22:08:27Z")
Did Maul ever do anything with the Force? I’ve only read one of the pre-TPM books, and it had nothing to say about Force skills. He’s a great fighter, acrobat, tracker, hunter… but Vader would beat him into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/12 "2002-07-12T22:45:01Z")
The way I see it…Maul’s the better fighter, probably taught from birth, a sort of Sith fanatic. In a straight lightsaber fight, he’s likely faster and has had nastier training and instincts. Also, I doubt Anakin has ever even seen a double saber, so that’s another advantage Maul has. Vader has more Force power and pure anger, and probably learned how to fight from Yoda, so he’s gotten some good tips. If it’s after he was all 'borged up, he’s probably stronger and has learned to manipulate the Force from the Dark and Light sides. You make your own choice. ---
**Author:** ![NutWrench](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nutwrench/32/20193_2.png) [@NutWrench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutWrench)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/13 "2002-07-12T23:05:57Z")
I’m not going to just accept at face value the notion that someone is evil until they’ve blown up at least one planet. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/14 "2002-07-13T01:21:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > **Ummm, he only sabered off Anakin’s hand,** Presenting the only site on the 'net dedicated to: [The Chopped-Off Hands of Star Wars](http://members.tripod.com/~Adam_P_B/starwarshands/) ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/15 "2002-07-13T05:10:54Z")
> [@](#): > > **he detonates entire planets as a form of extortion.** > [@](#): > > **I’m not going to just accept at face value the notion that someone is evil until they’ve blown up at least one planet.** Y’all _do_ realize that it was Grand Moff Tarkin, not Vader, who ordered the destruction of Alderaan, right? ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2002, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/16 "2002-07-13T05:53:43Z")
Moff Tarkin would have kicked both their asses if he was only allowed to play with light sabers (his union didn’t allow it) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/17 "2002-07-13T19:20:40Z")
To me, the indiscriminate-killing-of-subordinates thing has always seemed more evil than the destruction of Aldaran. I mean, this is a war and all, and I suppose that Aldaran might be considered a legitimate military target. Yes, there were innocent civilians on the planet, too, but then, there were civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All the business about force-choking the bearers of bad news, though, has no military value. Vader just does that 'cause he feels like it. Even in the cases of genuine incompetence (the admiral at Hoth, for instance), most commanders would have been satisfied with demotion. Of course, Maul never did either. From all we can tell in the movie, he might have had some legitimate greivance against the Jedi. He certainly never did anything to anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Green\_Fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Fool)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2002, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/18 "2002-07-13T20:51:46Z")
Ummm… so the destruction of Alderan is less evil than killing a handful of other bad guys? OOooooookay tiger, whatever you say. It’s like if Nazi Germany blew up Hamburg, because the mayor and other functionaries were secretly aiding the French Underground. In the Maul vs. Vader story, Maul is a clone if memory serves. And Vader defeats him when Maul attacks him from behind, Vader stabs his lightsaber through himself to get to Maul. It’s also interesting to note that Vader doesn’t kill anyone else after revealing himself to Luke. He has grounds to when the Falcon escapes at the end of ESB but he just walks away. Admiral Piett just gulps and looks relieved as Vader passes. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2002, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darths-vader-vs-maul/118637/19 "2002-07-13T21:03:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > **He _erases data_? That monster! That cold, blackhearted scoundrel! Surely, this is the basest of base villains! Vader blew up a couple planets, but _erasing data?!?!_** So he’s the evil ass who deleted four hours of work on my Mac. Why if I was a jedi master I’d teach him a thing or two about erasing my data! Bastard!