# Darwinism Extinct **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968 "2003-06-28T13:15:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/21 "2003-06-28T13:54:17Z")
[Polio made from scratch](http://www.nature.com/nsu/020708/020708-17.html). ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/22 "2003-06-28T13:54:21Z")
I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Moti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/87869e/32.png) [@Moti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moti)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/23 "2003-06-28T14:02:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Epimetheus \* > \*\*I don’t think anybody is going to respond with anything but barking since your posts are long and poorly structured. \*\* Ok just answer this: Karandhara. Modern proponents of Darwinism say that the first living organism was created chemically. Srila Prabhupada. And I say to them, “If life originated from chemicals, and if your science is so advanced, then why can’t you create life biochemically in your laboratories?” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/24 "2003-06-28T14:04:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*[Polio made from scratch](http://www.nature.com/nsu/020708/020708-17.html). \*\* And your response to this link is…? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/25 "2003-06-28T14:39:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Moti \* > Srila Prabhupada: Therefore our first charge against Darwin is this: He says > there were no human beings millions of years ago. That is not a fact. We now > see human beings existing along with all other species, and it should be > concluded that this situation always existed. Human life has always been > there. Darwin cannot say there was no human life. Evidently, the Sahib gleaned his knowledge of evolution from watching episodes of _The Flintstones_. There’s nothing in this nonsense that challenges Darwin. It would only be convincing to someone who has already decided not to believe Darwinism. The “Devotee” is asking some valid questions (though clearly just to give Srila a chance to explain his faith) but if I was him, I would have lost patience long ago and called Srila a fool determined to be ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/26 "2003-06-28T15:47:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*Folks, let’s not get too excited, here. > > This has nothing to do with science or Darwin. > > This **is** the Forum for **Witnessing** ; you are simply not accustomed to witnessing from outside the Christian community. > > \*\* I’m mostly not accustomed to two kilometers-long witnessing posts. That’s just unreadable. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/27 "2003-06-28T15:50:17Z")
I’m just wondering what Darwinism has to do with Abiogenesis. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/28 "2003-06-28T16:00:18Z")
Hey **Moti** , this board may be an excellent opportunity for you to start to learn how to think for yourself. Don’t blow it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/29 "2003-06-28T16:06:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Karandhara. Modern proponents of Darwinism say that the first living organism was created chemically. > Srila Prabhupada. And I say to them, “If life originated from chemicals, and if your science is so advanced, then why can’t you create life biochemically in your laboratories?” Karandhara is mistaken about the level of advancement of Western science. We are also not able to create a star in the laboratory, therefore Hertzprung-Russelism is clearly disproven. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/30 "2003-06-28T16:07:52Z")
Haven’t folks already been officially called on the carpet for “witnessing” posts that consist of nothing but Bible verses? How is this different? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/31 "2003-06-28T16:08:17Z")
What, is this the new version of the “Who’s on First” routine? > [@](#): > > “If life originated from chemicals, and if your science is so advanced, then why can’t you create life biochemically in your laboratories?” Is this any sort of serious question anyway? I mean, the core of the question relies on the “if your science is so advanced” bit. But this isn’t any sort of legitimate logical point. Science today is more advanced than yesterday, but that doesn’t make it omnipotent. Science is just a process we use to figure things out. It can know some things, but not know others. And it can know things that we currently lack the technology to make use of. So this is less of a question than just an insult. It’s the grownup version of “if you’re so smart, how come you’re not rich?” Worse, it doesn’t have much relevance to the issue. The issue is whether there is good evidence for life developing via chemical processes. Looking for this evidence is an entirely different endeavor than trying to reproduce these processes in the lab (I mean, most guesses are that the key original processes took thousands of years at least: how are we supposed to reproduce that?). Indeed, most of the attempts to chemically construct simple life use processes that are far too fast and sophisticated to be similar to those that could have been at work in the early earth. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/32 "2003-06-28T16:09:11Z")
Sorry, the format of the quoted text seems to have interfered with my reading comprehension. Please change my reference above to “Srila Prabhupada” instead of “Karandhara.” ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/33 "2003-06-28T16:09:57Z")
Damn, DrFidelius said it much better. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/34 "2003-06-28T16:11:37Z")
“If life originated from chemicals, and if your science is so advanced, then why can’t you create life biochemically in your laboratories” OK, personally _my_ science is not so advanced. If your god is so advanced why can’t he create life biochemically? Hadn’t thought of that one had you? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/35 "2003-06-28T17:36:13Z")
Meh. As soon as scientists succeed in creating life from scratch (life in the full sense - polio is a virus and doesn’t meet everybody’s definition of a living organism" in a laboratory. all that will happen is that the anti-evo folks will stop syaing “It can’t be done” and start saying “See? It requires an intelligent causal agent!” ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/36 "2003-06-28T17:42:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Combination means God. God is combining. Combination does not take place automatically. I am the cooker, and in cooking I combine together ghee, spices, rice, dal, and so on; and in this way, nice dishes are produced. Man, now I’m hungry for a decent curry… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/37 "2003-06-28T18:01:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Combination does not take place automatically. My goodness: he’s just disproved virtually every oher chemical process in my body! ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/38 "2003-06-28T18:56:22Z")
Moti? Are you there? Moti! Mooooootiii! _sound of crickets chirping_ Ah well. .:Nichol:. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/39 "2003-06-28T19:02:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Nothing is extinct. The monkey is not extinct. Darwin’s immediate forefather, the monkey, is still existing. \*\* The monkey is not extinct therefore nothing is extinct? You buy that argument **Moti**? I hope you haven’t run away, we have this thing about “fighting ignorance” here and apparently you still need **alot** of work. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968/40 "2003-06-28T19:27:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Moti \* > \*\*And I say to them, “If life originated from chemicals, and if your science is so advanced, then why can’t you create life biochemically in your laboratories?” \*\* A) This is not a criticism of Darwinism. It is a statement that science is not as advanced as we supposedly think it is. B) The first time it happened, it took hundreds of millions of years. We’ve been at it for a couple of decades. C) We’re working on it, with some progress being made. D) This is a classic example of the “God of the gaps” fallacy, wherein you assume that something can be explained by science _or_ religion in a mutually exclusive manner, i.e. if science can’t explain it, it must have been done by God. The problem with this attitude is that science is constantly expanding, so your God’s power is constantly shrinking. That’s not a God I want to follow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/darwinism-extinct/184968.md?page=3)