# "Data" as a plural -- anyone holding out for this one? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 30, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549 "2006-03-30T15:43:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/21 "2006-03-30T23:49:26Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > If by “agenda” you mean some sort of political agenda, then no, they didn’t. But they all had advanced degrees in social science and had done clinical papers and theses and dissertations and all that and they had it drilled into them that data are plural. \ > [@Napier](#): > > I say “data are”. Language changes quickly enough without my errors helping it along. Do you have an agenda, too? Why is “the data is” an error? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/22 "2006-03-31T01:14:50Z")
I don’t say “datum” ever, but I will write things like “the data are”. ---
**Author:** ![onedayfishsale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onedayfishsale/32/4398_2.png) [@onedayfishsale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/onedayfishsale)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/23 "2006-03-31T02:20:31Z")
I’m actually a reformed singlar-_data_ user. With training in mechanical engineering, I heard and used _datum_ frequently (a common term for reference points and planes in CAD-like software). Now, working around geologists, I hear and read _data are_ all the time, and switched to that camp not too long ago. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/24 "2006-03-31T02:28:07Z")
I use data, media, and criteria as plurals. I haven’t had much of a chance to use datum. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/25 "2006-03-31T03:07:02Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > \ > Do you have an agenda, too? Why is “the data is” an error? I wouldn’t say I have an “agenda.” **Sal** asked if anyone is still holding out. My Webster’ New World Dictionary says _n.pl [often construed as sing.]_ My American Heritage Dictionary says _pl.n. Data is now used both as a plural and a singular collective._ And, as noted earlier, my AP Stylebook says it takes a plural verb, except when used as a collective noun. When I type “data plural” into Google I get more than 8,000,000 pages, so I 'd say there’s a fair amount of discussion about it. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/26 "2006-03-31T03:11:38Z")
What do you mean, “anyone holding out”? There’s no holding out involved. Data, media, and criteria are plural. Datum, medium, and criterion are singular. The sentence “my data is bad” is just plain wrong. Yeah, maybe it’s pedantic, but I never adopted the “everybody else is doing it wrong, so I will, too” philosophy. > [@Electronic Chaos](#): > > I always considered “data” as a kind of collective noun, therefore you say “The data is weak.” in the same way you’d say “The school [of fish] is swimming.” And, being pedantic, I’d say “The shoal [of fish] is swimming.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/27 "2006-03-31T03:17:07Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I wouldn’t say I have an “agenda.” Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. Why didn’t you write “I wouldn’t say I have an agendum”? After all, that’s the Latin singular for “agenda.” Answer: you’re not talking Latin. You’re talking English. The fact that “data” is plural in Latin is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/28 "2006-03-31T06:35:53Z")
Data/Datum Agenda/Agendum What’s wrong with keeping the plural/singular bits straight? I don’t usually refer to datum singularly, so I don’t use the word very often. But it’s nice when someone is aware of the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/29 "2006-03-31T07:46:25Z")
I generally say data are, rather than data is. When I must refer to the entire set of data, I would say the data are because the entire set is still a group. When I have to refer to more than one medium, I call them psychics. Then I make fun of them. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/30 "2006-03-31T08:03:16Z")
I still use data as a plural word. Its partly because the style manual for the professional journal in my field demands that we use data as a plural, so its been drummed into me. The phrases “the data is” or “the data shows” just looks plain wrong to me now. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/31 "2006-03-31T08:15:39Z")
How 'bout this: You keep fish in an aquari **um**. But who ever says “I have two aquari **a** ” ? I studied Latin in my schoolboy days (and actually liked it!). But nowadays, I speak English. Plurals end in s, not a. “the data _is_ accurate” , “the news media _is_ biased” etc. It would have sounded grammatically incorrect to ancient Romans. But they’re all dead, and I’m not. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/32 "2006-03-31T08:36:22Z")
Likewise, Persian borrowed tons of words from Arabic, including the complex “broken plurals,” which to a Persian who doesn’t know Arabic, are not recognizable as plurals. Persian, like English, forms plurals by adding suffixes. Arabic usually makes plurals (called “broken” because the internal structure of the word is broken up and the pieces rearranged) by changing the pattern of vowels while keeping the three consonants of the root. So just like _data, media, agenda,_ and (still illegitimately)_criteria_, these Arabic plurals became treated in Persian grammar as singulars. Example: Arabic _‘ulamâ’_ means scholars, the plural of the singular form _‘âlim._ Because the ‘ulamâ’ held a role in Islamic society as a discinct class of people, the plural form was commonly used even in non-Arabic speaking countries. Apparently, as the more familiar form of the word, it was adopted for the general meaning, so its plurality became unmarked. Then in Persian people would say sentences like _Az yak ‘olamâ be-porsid agar dânestan khvâhi_ (Ask an ‘ulamâ’ if you want to know. _Yak_ means ‘one’ or ‘a’). Which is the equivalent of saying in English “I just need one criteria.” But over time, everyone got so used to talking that way, it became acceptable Persian grammar. Later, many languages all across Asia and elsewhere, like Turkish, Urdu, Uzbek, etc. became heavily influenced by Persian, and they took up this use of the plural form with singular meaning. Which reminds me, even in English I sometimes hear “a mujahidin” – this is an Arabic “sound” (i.e. not broken) plural, made by simply adding a suffix. It’s like the Hebrew -im in _cherubim_. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/33 "2006-03-31T10:09:18Z")
People are still insisting that “data” is a plural noun? Those are news! I tend to think of “data” as uncountable but “criteria” as countable, so I use “criterion” where relevant. On the other hand, I’m a fussy sod who will write “12m” for midday, even if I end up having to explain myself. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/34 "2006-03-31T10:57:15Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > People are still insisting that “data” is a plural noun? Those are news! Yep. From the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society style manual: > [@](#): > > data is a plural word (these data show…). Maybe its a Brit thing? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/35 "2006-03-31T14:38:54Z")
Well, the British do say stuff like “the government are…” They all just need to learn us how to conjugate some. Here’s something confusing (from **Kunilou** ’s post above): “My AP Stylebook says it takes a plural verb, except when used as a collective noun.” I’m having trouble making the distinction. (Though, to revert to my previous example, I think there are times when British people say, “The government is…” if they’re thinking of the government as a collective entity, as opposed to an aggregation of individuals – again, a distinction I have trouble making.) ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/36 "2006-03-31T14:40:59Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > Maybe its a Brit thing? Don’t think so. I think it’s really more of a stodgy-crumudgeon vs. non-stodgy crumodgeon thing. A random and unscientific sampling of American institutions that prefer data to be used as a plural noun: [American Psychological Association](http://www.docstyles.com/apacrib.htm) [University of Rocheter](http://www.rochester.edu/news/styleguide/web.html) [University of Montana](http://www.umt.edu/urelations/style/d.htm) [University of Texas System](http://www.utsystem.edu/News/StyleGuidelines.htm) [Medical Library Association](http://www.mlanet.org/publications/style/stylspell.html#D) And, just for you, **Angua** , [AJ](http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJ/auinstruct.text.html) & [ApJ](http://ucp.uchicago.edu/ApJ/instruct/instruct.text.html). 🙂_Icarus_ has no notice of it in their guidelines for authors, but the current editor prefers the plural (P. D. Nicholson, personal communication, 2005). But, then, he’s Australian . . . 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/37 "2006-03-31T15:03:15Z")
As a scientist, I just reflexively used data as a plural. Early on, I had the singular usage corrected often enough by reviewers or editors that it’s natural now. If I used it as a singular in a professional context, I would be ridiculed as ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/38 "2006-03-31T15:28:44Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Data is plural in Latin. But we’re speaking English, so that bit of data is irrelevant. “Data” is plural in English too, according to most (as far as I know, all) dictionaries, as well as both Chicago and AP stylebooks (even if some may also allow its usage in the singular in some constructions). Merriam-Webster has this to say: > [@](#): > > usage: Data leads a life of its own quite independent of datum, of which it was originally the plural. It occurs in two constructions: as a plural noun (like earnings), taking a plural verb and plural modifiers (as these, many, a few) but not cardinal numbers, and serving as a referent for plural pronouns (as they, them); and as an abstract mass noun (like information), taking a singular verb and singular modifiers (as this, much, little), and being referred to by a singular pronoun (it). Both constructions are standard. The plural construction is more common in print, evidently because the house style of several publishers mandates it. While I would certainly not say that “data is” is an error, the idea that anyone is “holding out” for “data are” is rather bizarre, since this is the standard construction in many contexts, and certainly the most widely accepted one by dictionaries and stylebooks. “Data are” and “data is” are both correct in English. However, using “data is” will make you appear ignorant to many people. Using “data are” will make you appear stuffy to other people. The choice is yours! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/39 "2006-03-31T15:28:47Z")
I never understood the attitude being shown by some of the posters in this thread. It comes across as “A lot of people use this word wrong (e.g., data as singular), so I’m going to use it wrong, too. If you use it right, you’re a stuffy old fool.” Fine. If you want to misspeak because all of your friends misspeak, then by all means do so. But why ridicule or insult the people who still say it correctly? > [@chappachula](#): > > But who ever says “I have two aquari **a** ” ? (raises hand tentatively) That’s the way I learned it. One aquarium. Two aquaria. I’ve never heard an educated adult say “aquariums” before. Is it common? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549/40 "2006-03-31T15:41:16Z")
**Invisible Wombat** , as a historical linguist, I can say that as a prescriptivist you are fighting a losing battle. Living language does not behave as prescriptivists say it ought. It behaves however it behaves and that’s that. The only cases in which prescriptivists actually get their wish, and have all the rules locked down, are dead languages. Would you want to kill English? Murderer! 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/data-as-a-plural-anyone-holding-out-for-this-one/350549.md?page=3)