# DATELINE: Has Catching Perverts Gone too far? \[ed. title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615 "2007-11-24T17:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/321 "2007-12-19T18:15:16Z")
[QUOTE=CannyDan] Enforcement commonly ‘trades up’ to catch the largest fish. Surely in your career you’ve had clients whose (relatively) minor crimes were overlooked if they could serve up a shark higher on the food chain. [/quote] More seldom than you’d think – as a public defender, I was more likely to find the lowest of the low, so to speak – not the bottom rung of the gang, but the guys that couldn’t even cut it in the gang in the first place. Much of my line of work was getting the bet deal for my guy because he dealt first, not because he could serve up a bigger fish. Not to say it didn’t happen, but in general… no. But I take your meaning, certainly. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, those who have difficulty with personal interaction, the losers, the imbeciles, the terminally lame, seem to be most often snared in PJ’s net. Indeed, their fantasies include some of the hallmarks of childhood on the part of their – well, presumptive victims, or at least the recipients of their attentions. Disgusting? Sure. Again, these are profoundly immature men acting out fantasies in which they have competance and power. Might they actually harm someone? Yes. Should they be stopped, or at least diverted? Yes. But is this really a good use of resources? We’re catching a shoal of minnows, and imposing the harshest of sentences upon them. And the sharks are watching the program, and probably laughing. > > Better perhaps that we find some way to identify them too, and stop their greater harm. No argument there. But then… what you say applies to all criminal activity. The guy clueless enough to sell a dime bag to the undercover cop is caught much easier, and more frequently, than the guy selling six kilos of finest Columbian flake. The street hooker dumb enough to climb in the undercover officer’s car and make a deal gets arrested much more often than the Heidi Fleiss courtesan. The crack addict shoplifting from Walmart gets nabbed with greater ease than the international jewel thief. That’s the reality of law enforcement. This doesn’t mean we should ignore the international jewel thieves, of course, but neither can we ignore the shoplifters. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/322 "2007-12-19T19:52:54Z")
Bricker, I think we are in agreement. I’ll monitor the thread but, unless something dramatic arises, I’ll not further thrash a prostrate equine. John Kennelly-- I’d go with imbecile. Sufficient at that. And no, we can’t ignore the shoplifters and other relatively petty criminals. Neither should we ignore or otherwise accept the bumbling attempts at sexual predation of these creeps. But let’s keep this in perspective. Perverted Justice approaches their (“its”?) mission with an almost religious fervor. These perps are _evil_, we need to ferret them out and _deal with them_, anybody that can’t see this is ignorant, after all, _ **think of the children!!** _ My personal discomfort meter begins a traverse around the dial whenever I hear statements like this. Such fervor in any cause can lead to serious problems, and a steady rein needs to be held on the fervor to ensure it does not sacrifice truth and reality. Seeing the actual miscreants who have been caught so easily and so publicly by PJ and Chris Hanson does nothing to reduce my feeling. So mine is not a call to ignore these perps, nor to forgive them. But I wish that instead I could see some assurance that the really scary people out there, the real pedophiles who are raping their own children, or their neices, or their students-- that PJ or somebody was making an equal good faith effort to find \*these \* monsters. And not just taking the easy publicity to hype their cause afforded by such as Dateline. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/323 "2007-12-19T21:27:17Z")
[QUOTE=CannyDan] So mine is not a call to ignore these perps, nor to forgive them. But I wish that instead I could see some assurance that the really scary people out there, the real pedophiles who are raping their own children, or their neices, or their students-- that PJ or somebody was making an equal good faith effort to find \*these \* monsters. And not just taking the easy publicity to hype their cause afforded by such as Dateline. [/QUOTE] Your point is a good one – if i can summarize it it with my own twist, it’s that the massive publicity created by Dateline’s airing creates almost a false sense of security and accomplishment – “Look, we’re catching all the scary predators!” – when in reality the scariest of them are not really vulnerable to these kinds of stings and remain safely out of reach. By thus doing, Dateline in a way makes the problem worse, by creating the impression that they’re doing more than they are. If that’s your message… I agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/324 "2007-12-20T01:40:33Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Your point is a good one – if i can summarize it it with my own twist, it’s that the massive publicity created by Dateline’s airing creates almost a false sense of security and accomplishment – “Look, we’re catching all the scary predators!” – when in reality the scariest of them are not really vulnerable to these kinds of stings and remain safely out of reach. By thus doing, Dateline in a way makes the problem worse, by creating the impression that they’re doing more than they are. If that’s your message… I agree with it. [/QUOTE] That took a while, didn’t it? That’s what we’ve all been saying the whole time. (A **big** part of it, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/325 "2007-12-20T03:42:17Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] That took a while, didn’t it? That’s what we’ve all been saying the whole time. (A **big** part of it, anyway.) [/QUOTE] :dubious: Indeed? A review of your prior posts indicates that you were concealing that communicative goal remarkably well, then. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/326 "2007-12-20T04:19:12Z")
Apparently, by “review of your prior posts”, you meant “total unwillingness to scroll up”. Here, I’ll help: > [@Hostile Dialect](#): > > > [@CannyDan](#): > > > > Still, as earlier posters have noted, this TV infotainment glosses over the real harms caused by real predators acting on women and children under their actual control (measured by the statistical evidence cited). > > Quoted for truth. Excellent post. > [@Hostile Dialect](#): > > That’s the thing. Most abusers of girls and women are married men–that is, the people who have the most access to girls and women. It’s the most logical thing. But if you’re going to set up a sting for national TV where you need new suckers every week, it’s easier to do it on single men, who are obviously going to be more desperate. (I’m not condoning the men’s actions here; I’m just saying that, being single, they’re obviously going to be more likely to get caught with their cock in the grater.) As has been said numerous times, this whole thing at best diverts attention from the real problem, which is that real married men are abusing real girls who they’re related to, much more than chubby single losers are actually convincing 14-year-old girls to fuck them. The crime is infinitely worse, too–incest and rape are by definition several times more vile and probably dozens of times more damaging to the victim than simple statutory rape. (By “simple”, I mean no violence or other crimes involved.) Snip an assload of my posts about how very few 14-year-old girls would encourage, not rebuff, the average middle-aged man on the Internet, which implies my already-stated viewpoint that incest and rape are far bigger issues that this show completely glosses over. See also: > [@Hostile Dialect](#): > > > [@Wee Bairn](#): > > > > this is a great point- a better more rewarding sting would be an adult trying to sell their three year old, and then catching the assholes who show up. 14-15 is wrong, but its grey area if the perp is 18-20- Traci Lords was doing porn at 15- no excuse for a teen, but _really_ no excuse for a three year old. > > The problem is that there aren’t nearly enough of those guys to find one every single week for several years, and the fact that those asshats were only getting 30-60 days in the slammer, tops, would enrage the audience. (The Dateline guys have clearly shown no ability to build a decent case, even with the help of actual attorneys who probably want very badly to lock the so-called “predators” up.) In essence, what you’d have is the entire into-three-year-olds community suddenly realizing that they can suffer no real consequences from finding three-year-olds to rape on the Internet. And a show without the ratings and the publicity. and > [@Hostile Dialect](#): > > > [@Mijin](#): > > > > They should’ve said the minor was aged 10 or something. > > Therein lies the point of the entire exercise: if they did that, they wouldn’t nab enough people, because while every straight man in the world is physically wired to find some 14-year-old girls sexually attractive (at the basest level); only a fraction of a percentage of people (presumably) would feel the same way about a 10-year-old; so if the bait were supposed to be 10 years old, there would be fewer perverts to catch and their ratings would suffer. “We didn’t find anyone this week, but THEY’RE OUT THERE! Seriously! What, you don’t believe me? Tune in next week! No, really! …Please?” > [@Hostile Dialect](#): > > The point is that it’s not that black-and-white. You may not jump into that Ferrari, but it’s easy for someone in a bad situation to make a slight compromise on their moral system and do something that they would never do otherwise. It might very well be conceivable that someone who just had his car repossessed, stands to lose his job if he can’t find another means of transportation, doesn’t have enough cash around for a trolley pass and is struggling to make the rent, maybe, just maybe, that guy will struggle with it. At that point, it is a legitimate moral dilemma for that person in that situation, and that person might do something they would regret, or that they wouldn’t do otherwise. > > When that thing they’re lured into means they have to jump on a sex offender list and face hardship and discrimination in every single endeavor in the rest of their lives, that’s a big deal. Especially when it distracts (money, time, attention, publicity, etc.) away from the efforts to snap up the people who actually commit sex crimes. > [@Hostile Dialect](#): > > That’s the point–they may not have intended to rape before someone claiming to be a 14-year-old girl seduced them online. Most rapists are husbands and/or fathers, since those are the men who have easy access to women. Entrapping single men who may or may not have actually intended to commit a crime otherwise, for ratings and advertising revenue, is pure evil. ---
**Author:** ![raran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@raran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raran)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/327 "2013-09-12T23:32:54Z")
Long-time lurker, big-time reader who is posting on a topic almost 7 years old. I ended up doing significant (for me) time over drugs. Usual impossible to find work after getting out. I expected that. So, anyhow, I was in a half-way house. Once in a while we would eat together and watch TV. This was not mandated, just the guys who really seemed to want to stay clean. These shows were the only thing that we would agree on. 1/4 agreed with my ST:TNG, 1/2 wanted BET and someone tossed out MSNBC. So we ended up watching the Georgia one. Furious debate similar to this board but with lots of cussing and cigarette breaks. One element I want to add to the above discussion came out during our lively ‘debates’. The creepy ‘decoys’ (and NOT the honeys they had at the sting) would be better named if they were ‘Perverts for Justice’ If you can stomach it, go to YouTube and check it out. Del is so creepy. And the ones on the phone? You can tell they REALLY dig pretending they are kids. And then hit the website and pick a chat-log. As icky as they get, the ‘decoy’ is digging it big time. I guess it was the crimes, since all of us were in for drug-related stuff. I am more worried about SETI attracting Klingons than I am about getting busted for any of that ‘predator’ stuff. Out of curiosity, I looked up what happened to some of the cats from the Georgia. They drew significant time, like a nickel or above. Watch Del and Don Cheech to see what happens when rank amateurs like to play cops. OK, back to lurking… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/328 "2013-09-13T02:23:42Z")
I’d forgotten that MySpace was once a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/329 "2013-09-13T02:55:23Z")
At first I was enraged by the possibility of zombie pedophiles. But then I thought about it – maybe they only prey on zombie children. After all, surely the urge for brains would override any other urges on encountering a living human? And zombie child abuse bothers me far less. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615/330 "2013-09-13T02:56:58Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And zombie child abuse bothers me far less. You are a rabid vitalist! They’re undead, not unpersons! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dateline-has-catching-perverts-gone-too-far-ed-title/427615.md?page=16)