# Dating a photo - 19th century clothing experts **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939 "2012-11-14T01:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/1 "2012-11-14T01:07:38Z")
I’m trying to date this [photo](http://i.imgur.com/B3pVp.jpg)of a family - and estimate the ages of the individuals. I’m interested in your guesses. I know nothing about the photo or the ages of the individuals, just that is a husband, wife and son. I’m hoping that the women’s dress contains some clues. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/2 "2012-11-14T04:05:23Z")
Are you sure there are two guys there? Looks like two females and a male. The guy looks a bit younger than the left hand lady - she looks old enough to be his mother. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/3 "2012-11-14T05:32:06Z")
All I know is that what I suppose one can call a ‘lady’ on the left is showing far too much wrist for polite company. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/4 "2012-11-14T05:41:21Z")
I’m just surprised nobody in this picture’s obviously dead. One or more of them still might have been dead when it was taken, but I can’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/5 "2012-11-14T05:43:26Z")
I’d guess right around 1860. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/6 "2012-11-14T05:53:40Z")
Look around **[here](http://www.fashion-era.com/index.htm)**, and ask the owner of this site. **[They are an expert](http://www.fashion-era.com/about_us.htm)** on fashion/clothing. I believe there are also forums there. Good luck! 🙂 Edit: I agree, that is a woman and two young adults, one girl and one boy. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/7 "2012-11-14T06:09:24Z")
I will second the idea that is a photo of two women and one man. The man’s necktie makes me say this is probably 1870’s. Maybe as late as 1880. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/8 "2012-11-14T06:52:10Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I’m trying to date this [photo](http://i.imgur.com/B3pVp.jpg)of a family - and estimate the ages of the individuals. I’m interested in your guesses. > > I know nothing about the photo or the ages of the individuals, just that is a husband, wife and son. I’m hoping that the women’s dress contains some clues. Looks to me like a mother, daughter, and son (L to R). The one male I see looks too young to be anyone’s father, and much too young to be married to the one adult in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Sandra\_Battye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sandra_battye/32/552_2.png) [@Sandra\_Battye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandra_Battye)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/9 "2012-11-14T06:55:39Z")
Not an expert by any means, but I would go with 1865-80 also. The seated woman isn’t wearing a hoop skirt, it looks like a (probably soft) bustle. The standing girl’s dress is also cut much narrower than a hoop skirt would have been. The woman’s shoulder seams are still doing the “I’m just a weak woman” thing but not as much as they were before 1865. If before 1865, the shoulder seams would have been halfway to her elbow. It is hard to tell if they are a couple of years out of fashion, too lower/middle-class to wear the latest style, or maybe in half-mourning. Maybe a combination of all three. As to their ages, the seated woman is an older sister or the mom. She could be any age from 18 to 40. The quality of the photo (the original) is too poor to see any wrinkles or sagging skin. I’m guessing she is closer to 18 and the sister. The boy looks about 16 but could be a couple of years older or younger. The younger girl still is in short skirts and hasn’t much development on top but she is relatively tall. I’d guess she might be as young as 11 or as old as 14. And everything I said will probably be countered by someone who knows what they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/10 "2012-11-14T07:32:27Z")
A safe range is 1860-1880, but I’d lean closer to 1860 on the time line guess. Expressions, buttons, collars, tint and initial impression w/out much science other than looking at tons of old pictures and always being able to date them well. If I were placing a bet, I’d go 1868. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/11 "2012-11-14T08:51:43Z")
I know nothing of the fashion, but that looks like an albumen print. They were invented in 1855 but didn’t become common till about 1860. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Mood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Blue\_Mood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Mood)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/12 "2012-11-14T10:17:31Z")
Don’t know about the age of the photo - perhaps the ruffled cuffs and stylised collar would give a clue? The mother looks about 38, the son about 14, and the daughter about 9. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/13 "2012-11-14T16:39:52Z")
I wonder if it could be a family portrait for a soldier to carry? The woman is a mystery in the family, possibly born 1821-25 or 1831-35. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/14 "2012-11-14T17:21:01Z")
And remember that the people might not be so closely related as you think. It might be a mother, daughter, and the girl’s boy cousin. There are photos out there in my family where you could look at it and say “That’s a big brother and little sister”, but it’s actually me and my girl cousin. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/15 "2012-11-14T21:38:01Z")
> [@Blue\_Mood](#): > > Don’t know about the age of the photo - perhaps the ruffled cuffs and stylised collar would give a clue? The mother looks about 38, the son about 14, and the daughter about 9. That was my thought too. The woman does look old (sag under chin?) the boy looks very young, 14 or so. It’s hard to tell what style of shoes the boy is wearing. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/16 "2012-11-14T23:33:29Z")
Definitely post-Civil War, in my opinion. Hoopskirts went out, bustles came in. The lady seated is almost certainly wearing a dress with a bustle. The hairstyles on the ladies also scream 1870s!! to me. Tight little piled-up curls that ladies made by heating a small metal bar and wrapping their hair around until it scorched! The upswept hairstyles (with ears showing) was another 1870 innovation, before in the 1860s ears were considered ugly and something to hide with little side-sweeps of hair, if possible. Also, those long, long rag-rolled hair curls, hanging down - that hairstyle got less popular in the 1880s, although I suppose some there were some still. The necktie on the man (not an 1860s wide cravat) also seems 1870s-esque. Piping on the man’s jacket also kind of points to early 1870s. Actual matching buttons (not the war-time pseudo-buttons) are used unsparingly on the lady’s basque. Okay, so here’s my WAG: We’re looking at an 1870s photo (I’m going to guess very early 1870s?) of a mother and her two children. Maybe the father/husband died in the Civil War? The resemblance between the sitting boy and standing girl is pretty strong, around the nose and eyes and forehead, and they don’t resemble the sitting lady as much. (Though I still think she’s their relative and probably their mother.) The daughter and mother have VERY similar ears, and the brother to a lesser extent. I think they’re probably NOT immigrants or rural people - the clothes look like well-worn “Sunday Best” type outfits. The mother and son’s clothing looks to be sewn by a professional (if not stellar) dressmaker/tailor but the young girl’s dress looks homemade to me, in that kind of “bare and spare” fashion that little girls tended to be dressed in. No wasting of cloth, tight sleeves, not a lot of buttons and trim. So I think these people were not exactly wealthy, but not “working poor”, either. Maybe some sort of tradespeople. Probably not farmers or ranchers or people who spent a great deal of time outside - the boy looks very pale and smooth-faced - he probably worked indoors. The young girl (who I think is actually standing on a small, 3-legged stool so that her head appears in line with her mother and brother, is quite small and looks well-fed (another indicator that this isn’t a war-time photo) and healthy. If you look closely, you can see a plaid strip of fabric at about calf-length - that’s the hem of her dress. She’s a lot shorter than you’d think at first sight. In fact, I’d say she’s very small, about the size of a 7 or 8 year old. Though I suppose she might be 9 or 10 and small for her age. Because of the young appearance of the young girl and absent father with the Civil War timing, I’d narrow my guess down to maybe just 1870-1872. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/17 "2012-11-15T00:51:09Z")
My guess? Knotts Berry Farm circa 1978. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-a-photo-19th-century-clothing-experts/640939/18 "2012-11-17T18:39:32Z")
Thanks all, esp Sarabellum. Lots of good comments and clues. Much appreciated.