# Dating Etiquette Question: Men vs Makeup **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 17, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279 "2005-05-17T18:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/21 "2005-05-17T19:42:06Z")
In my experience (YMMV) women tend to pay more for their clothes in a sort of ‘casual/dressed-up’ sense. With women’s clothing, often you get less clothes for more money. Unless you’re talking about really formal, formal clothes (as in a suit or full tuxedo). Those tend to be hideously expensive. But a man can usually buy a whole ‘dressed up casual’ outfit (including underwear and shoes) for about what it costs a woman to buy a single dress. So she’s right in that regard. But again, she should be buying the clothes for herself, not for the mysterious guy she just might be dating or not. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/22 "2005-05-17T19:43:49Z")
If your friend would like to show up for a date naked and offer to pay, I would not let outmoded societal norms stop us. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/23 "2005-05-17T19:45:16Z")
Just chiming in that her ideas are kinda wacky. To start with, my ‘type’ is generally intelligent quirky women who aren’t real big into societal trends. In general, I prefer a woman with a beautiful face who _does not wear makeup_. I think most makeup makes women look, if not silly, at least somewhat less than naturally sexy. It’s trying too hard, in my eyes, and that’s a turnoff. Also have to agree with the other folks about paying. I think the person who asks pays, at least for the first date or two. Then again, for some reason, I think it’d be pretty damn sexy/cool if a woman was interested enough in me to pick up the check herself. Maybe even say something like “Hey, that was a great meal, how about I pay for that, and then you take me out dancing now?” In any case I’m not ‘dating’, as I have a serious girlfriend. But I can tell you that if she expected me to pay for everything, we wouldn’t be together. I’m a man, her boyfriend, and her friend, not an ATM. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/24 "2005-05-17T19:47:22Z")
> [@Sierra Indigo](#): > > In my experience [snip] That was in response to **Lady of the Lake** ’s last post, about women and men’s spending habits for clothes. Just in case it came out of left field there. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/25 "2005-05-17T19:53:40Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I think that if I was a guy, I would avoid dating your friend. The whole point of dating is creating a relationship, not personal financial benefit (unless you’re a gold-digger, in which case, see my first sentence). If a guy pays, it’s because he’s being nice and because he asked you out, not because he’s obligated. I would allow a guy to pay the first time for both only if I planned to pay the second time (and if I was willing to go a second time). Otherwise, I would insist on paying my half. > > Ask your friend if she would be okay dating a guy who did not preen himself beforehand or didn’t wear nice clothes. After all, he’s paying, so shouldn’t that be OK? Seems a fair way to date. 🙂 As an aside, I’ve forwarded your question to her to see if she has an opinion. (though she doesn’t get home from work until late tonight). ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/26 "2005-05-17T20:16:14Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > If your friend would like to show up for a date naked and offer to pay, I would not let outmoded societal norms stop us. Ha! I like this idea for her, but alas, the ugliness of Minnesota summer type weather is only surpassed by Minnesota winter type weather. Nekid doesn’t work well here. ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/27 "2005-05-17T20:23:55Z")
Very odd. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone espousing such a view. So because she is paying money for clothes and makeup, she feels entitled that her date is paid for by the man. This would even the books with her. I wonder how she feels about a man who takes her to a very upscale restaurant, orders a nice bottle of wine, and the total bill is over $200. This isn’t including any post dinner activities. The bill is a lot higher than she expected, and more than she put into make-up and clothes. Would he then be entitled to sex? ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/28 "2005-05-17T20:25:39Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Maybe even say something like “Hey, that was a great meal, how about I pay for that, and then you take me out dancing now?” That’s how it went with the last guy I dated: for example, if we planned on dinner and a movie, when the check came one of us would say, “How about I get this and you get the tickets?” It worked out pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/29 "2005-05-17T21:07:41Z")
That’s the poorest reasoning for dating conventions I’ve heard. It is naive, bordering on outright childish. But I do have a question for the friend. Let us say that I ask a girl out, and we have a lovely time at dinner. I couldn’t be more pleased with her company. But she looks like she just got off of a shift at the foundry: her hair is a mess, she hasn’t a spot of makeup on, and appears not to have taken a shower in some time. If I am wearing my Sunday best, looking great with a close shave and pomade in my hair, would it be appropriate for me to ask her to pick up the check because my date hasn’t lifted a finger or dropped a dime in preparing for the date? In other words, does this shoe fit on the other foot? (IHMO, no, it’s ludicrous.) ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/30 "2005-05-17T21:11:26Z")
My SO actually prefers me without makeup. And I never go out to eat or do something without being prepared to pay for my share, even though we usually just alternate who pays, if we can remember who paid last time. We’ve been together for a year, so we’re well past the first-date stuff. He did pay for the first date, but I think I paid for the second. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/31 "2005-05-17T21:15:43Z")
I am another man who prefers the simple look: clean skin, no makeup, no perfume, practical hair, practical clothing. The attitude described in the OP, for me, belongs in a museum. We’ve moved way beyond it. Or most of us have, anyway. > [@jimpatro](#): > > Actually, she’ll make an ideal trophy wife. Knock 'em dead hottie? Low IQ? Superficial? > Pair her up with some poor schmuck with bucks (oxymoron?) and all that’s left is to shop for the soccer van. Don’t forget, they’ll also have to start lining up their respective extramarital partners. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/32 "2005-05-17T21:29:21Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > I wonder how she feels about a man who takes her to a very upscale restaurant, orders a nice bottle of wine, and the total bill is over $200. This isn’t including any post dinner activities. The bill is a lot higher than she expected, and more than she put into make-up and clothes. Would he then be entitled to sex? Well, that’s an interesting point! As pertains to her personally, well, she is a virgin, so I don’t believe she would feel that her date would be entitled to sex. But, as a general question per her philosophy I could ask! ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/33 "2005-05-17T21:45:16Z")
> [@Lady of the Lake](#): > > She’d been on ‘dates’ perviously but it was always with the same boy who’d been interested in her since college - who she wasn’t interested in. This is setting the warning bells off faster than the other dumbness she has displayed. This makes her look really, really bad IMO. She doesn’t like the guy, but he pays for dinner and she is okay with that. If she made it clear to him that she wasn’t interested - then okay. I really have to say she is coming across as shallow and just plain mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/34 "2005-05-17T21:47:19Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If I am wearing my Sunday best, looking great with a close shave and pomade in my hair, would it be appropriate for me to ask her to pick up the check because my date hasn’t lifted a finger or dropped a dime in preparing for the date? In other words, does this shoe fit on the other foot? > > (IHMO, no, it’s ludicrous.) No, for me, but I don’t agree with her philosophy…I will see if I can get her to look at this question as well tonight. I’d hazard a guess that the fact that women get periods evens it out? 😃 To the posters of the thread: Thank you all who have posted, it has been educational, I have enjoyed reading different life stories and opinions! ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/35 "2005-05-17T21:52:35Z")
> [@Lady of the Lake](#): > > She is 29 year old and just started ‘dating’ dating last year. > > (She’d been on ‘dates’ perviously but it was always with the same boy who’d been interested in her since college - who she wasn’t interested in.) **Hold on here!/**. Are you saying that she has spent the past eight years stringing along this poor guy who has been holding a torch for her, half-dating when she has no interest in actually having a relationship with this fellow. That’s a serious problem right there. With that history, it doesn’t surprise me that she has screwed up ideas about the proper balance of contributions in dating. (Or, on preview, what **adam yax** said.) ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/36 "2005-05-17T22:03:17Z")
Many of my parents’ dates were of the hiking or skiing in the mountains type. In other words, the cost was limited to gas and a sack lunch (with the possibility of dinner out, but the type of place you eat dinner after hiking all day is not neccessarily the type of place you eat dinner if dinner is the focus of the date)and I doubt my mother spent a great deal of time fussing with make-up and pretty clothes. She didn’t spend a lot of time primping because she knew that at the end of the day she’d be dirty, sweaty and possibly sunburnt. It also set the stage for a relationship in which if she wants to go out for a nice dinner for their anniversary she knows she’d better make the arrangements. Hardly the end of the world. Suggesting that who pays for a date has anything to do with who spends more time and energy and money getting ready is silly. Men are frequently expected to pay because of historical tradition, traditionaly male/female roles, and because they usually make the first move (see historical tradition, etc.) And by the way-- It seems to me that I’ve read that women fuss with makeup, polish toenails, etc. firstly for themselves and secondly for other women. Men are way down on the list, which makes sense as I think people pay more attention to themselves than they do to others (or others do to them) and women are more likely to notice certain types of details than are men. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/37 "2005-05-17T22:05:47Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > This is setting the warning bells off faster than the other dumbness she has displayed. This makes her look really, really bad IMO. She doesn’t like the guy, but he pays for dinner and she is okay with that. If she made it clear to him that she wasn’t interested - then okay. I really have to say she is coming across as shallow and just plain mistaken. I should probably get her in here (if I haven’t scared her away) so I don’t misrepresent her - he used to take her shopping and buy her whatever she liked. However, she gave him the ‘let’s just be friends’ speech many times (iirc) but then he kept buying her things so she eventually had to give him the ‘we can’t even be friends because you keep buying me things and expecting more without actually voicing this want’ speech. Just to clarify - the OP is about her philosophy - not her actions. She has paid her share on dates. I guess she just has worked out this ‘theory’ about dating recently - a theory that I’d never heard before. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/38 "2005-05-17T22:08:36Z")
I’ve had it go the other way around; my New Year’s Eve date one year told me that since he had to buy a new suitcoat to go to the swanky club **he** asked **me** to, it was only fair for me to pay for my own $$$ ticket that night. “I spent all this money to look good for _you_.” When did I find out I was to buy my own ticket? At the door. No, we didn’t go out again. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/39 "2005-05-17T22:15:19Z")
This is why I save my money all year and only date professional escorts. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279/40 "2005-05-17T22:23:28Z")
Ok, whether or not she was stringing along that guy or taking advantage of his crush for the free meals or whatever, she’s had but a handful of dates with the one fella and no relationships at 29? There’s gotta be some history there, and I don’t wanna hazard any guesses since none of the explanations popping into my head are nice. Well, however she got to this age with that little experience and such odd ideas, show her this thread so she can see just how far out there her dating theories are. It’s like anything else, really, if you want to be successful then you ask those with seniority and find out what works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dating-etiquette-question-men-vs-makeup/304279.md?page=3)