# David B, I'd like to discuss something with you. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157 "2003-02-14T21:33:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/121 "2003-02-16T01:01:16Z")
The civilians were targetted. Deliberately. Don’t be absurd. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/122 "2003-02-16T01:02:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JonScribe \* > Agreed. Then you cannot make the statement that our military does not, or has not, targeted civilians. ::stumbles into thread:: Then would not the side saying that you cannot make the statement that our military does, or has, targeted civilians? However, that our military has killed civilians in the past does not necessitate a current view that they do at present target civilians. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/123 "2003-02-16T01:03:25Z")
> [@](#): > > The civilians were targetted. Deliberately. Don’t be absurd. We were not deliberately targetting civilians. Don’t you be absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/124 "2003-02-16T01:04:10Z")
We intended to end the war specifically by \*killing civilians[i/]. And let’s not forget Dresden, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/125 "2003-02-16T01:04:49Z")
In any event, are you charging that our troops going into Iraq are going to kill civilians deliberately? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/126 "2003-02-16T01:06:46Z")
> [@](#): > > _iampunha_ > However, that our military has killed civilians in the past does not necessitate a current view that they do at present target civilians. Agreed, but it’s absurd to say that the US has _never_ targeted civilians. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/127 "2003-02-16T01:07:31Z")
Were Hiroshima & Nagasaki military bases? No. They were cities. Who lives in cities? Civilians. What were the targets of these attacks? The deliberately chosen targets of these attacks? Dear God, what planet do you live on? ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/128 "2003-02-16T01:10:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*::stumbles into thread:: > > Then would not the side saying that you cannot make the statement that our military does, or has, targeted civilians? > > However, that our military has killed civilians in the past does not necessitate a current view that they do at present target civilians. \*\* You’re correct, but **gobear** has offered no proof that it does not target or attack civilians. Yet he makes that assertion, ignoring what has happened in the past. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/129 "2003-02-16T01:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Those were intended to end the war, not to kill civilians. \*\* This is too fucking silly to respond to. “We had no idea we’d kill millions of civilians – we just wanted to explode A-bombs in two large Japanese metropolis and end the war magically.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/130 "2003-02-16T01:12:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Gobear_ > In any event, are you charging that our troops going into Iraq are going to kill civilians deliberately? Yes or no? Not me. I’m just talking about the past. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/131 "2003-02-16T01:19:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Were Hiroshima & Nagasaki military bases? No. They were cities. Who lives in cities? Civilians. > What were the targets of these attacks? The deliberately chosen targets of these attacks? > Dear God, what planet do you live on Hiroshima and Nagsaki were intended to break Japan’s military resolve and and induice them to surrender. The laternative would have been to conquer Japan island by island, a strategem that would have racked up a truly staggering civilian casualty count. In effect, Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved lives. But, hey, have it your way, America targeted civilians, and to hell with historical context. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/132 "2003-02-16T01:23:50Z")
> [@](#): > > This is too fucking silly to respond to. > > “We had no idea we’d kill millions of civilians – we just wanted to explode A-bombs in two large Japanese metropolis and end the war magically.” If we had wanted to kill civilians, there were more populous targets for us to hit. Tokyo, for instance. Do you seriously believe our intent was only to kill civilians? May I remind you that the Japanese and Germans were the ones who committed genocide and deliberately targetted civilian populations. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/133 "2003-02-16T01:26:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Hiroshima and Nagsaki were intended to break Japan’s military resolve and and induice them to surrender… by killing lots and lots of civilians. > [@](#): > > Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved lives. A truly staggering example of Orwellian doubletalk. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/134 "2003-02-16T01:28:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*In any event, are you charging that our troops going into Iraq are going to kill civilians deliberately? Yes or no? \*\* You’re again skirting the issue that I’ve now brought up three times. Namely, under _who’s_ name and authority do you intend to go in? Because if you “go at it alone,” yes, I do think you will be (justifiably) labeled as ‘murderers’ by most of the world once the bombs start falling. You will be going against International law – or, at the very least, steamrolling through it to get your war on. Your troops, you Government and Americans warmongers\* in general. Harsh, but I see no need for sugarcoating the reality of what America, through it’s dubiously elected leader, is threatening to do. “Spreading democracy” indeed. \*And I doubt most people will even bother to make the distinction between individual Americans. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/135 "2003-02-16T01:31:53Z")
Edit – The above sentence should read: Your troops, your Government and Americans warmongers\* in general _will be blamed for the killings_ ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/136 "2003-02-16T01:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Your troops, you Government and Americans warmongers\* in general. Harsh, but I see no need for sugarcoating the reality of what America, through it’s dubiously elected leader, is threatening to do. “Spreading democracy” indeed You do not know what you are talking about. Saddam Hussein is a proven murderer, not only of his own people but of his meighbors. He has already demonstrated that he has amibitions of conquest and hegemony in the Middle East. Every protest you engage is only aids the foreign ploicy plans of a geniunely dangerous man. I also suggest that you read **Bluesman’s** reply to antiwar protestors in this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=163342). ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/137 "2003-02-16T01:34:25Z")
> [@](#): > > You will be going against International law – or, at the very least, steamrolling through it to get your war on No, we will be enforcing international law, or did you not know that Saddam is in violation of several UN resolutions that deman an accounting of his WMDs? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/138 "2003-02-16T01:37:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*You do not know what you are talking about. Saddam Hussein is a proven murderer, not only of his own people but of his meighbors. He has already demonstrated that he has amibitions of conquest and hegemony in the Middle East. Every protest you engage is only aids the foreign ploicy plans of a geniunely dangerous man. > > I also suggest that you read **Bluesman’s** reply to antiwar protestors in this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=163342). \*\* How many times have I – and the rest of the world – heard that asinine retort, “you don’t know what you’re talking about,” when faced with the reality of what you’re about to do? Too many to count, that’s how many. As for reading ‘Bluesman’s reply.’ what for? I’ve been reading the chikenhawk’s bullshit for moths now – and I am sure they remain as unmoved and unpersuaded as they have been from the start. After all, they are sure they know better than 90% of humanity. And it is that fundamentalist state of righteousness that will get a lot of innocent people killed. Fanatics. Just like 9/11 with a different cast of characters. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/139 "2003-02-16T01:50:02Z")
> [@](#): > > As for reading ‘Bluesman’s reply.’ what for? I’ve been reading the chikenhawk’s bullshit for moths now “Chickenhawk”? **Bluesman** is in the Air Force and he is going to Iraq, putting his ass on the line for ingrates like you, who are content to benefit from America’s military but contribute nothing. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157/140 "2003-02-16T01:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*No, we will be enforcing international law, or did you not know that Saddam is in violation of several UN resolutions that deman an accounting of his WMDs? \*\* And who the fuck died and made you (USA) the UN sole enforcers? Because as it stands now, twelve out of fifteen countries in the UNSC **oppose** your war plans. And please, don’t give me the “violation of several UN resolutions,” spiel. I am not a kid – by that same rational you should be attacking Israel tomorrow. We’re talking about a hard-on by your selected leaders about Saddam, Iraq, its weakened military and its oil. Nothing more and nothing less. A plan already forged many years ago. Just look at the signatories of .[The Project for the New American Century](http://www.newamericancentury.org/index.html) Read. Digest. Learn. I have a feeling you are _really_ as naive as you sound. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/david-b-id-like-to-discuss-something-with-you/155157.md?page=8)